Beaching small multihulls for service

[Bad Dog]

Hey yep we beach our 41 ft cat on the beach, 1 hour after high. Boat has keels to sit on. No problems re painting as the wet growth wipes off with a broom then a touch up with antifoul. Also fit lights, do anodes, check rudders, sail drive oil change etc.
We pick up anything we drop & leave no trace.
Remember to bring a ladder & turn off engine sea cocks before tide goes out.

[Shaneesprit]

I have owned my CAT for about 6 years, excluding 2022 I have spent maybe £2000 on mooring including mooring equipment like chain and even including £300 on having a mooring block replaced.
Having said that I have spent a considerable amount on fuel and time to travel to and from my moorings x 2.
Been in an 8 meter tidal area until 2 weeks ago.
I have spent around £1500 on insurance over the same period.
This year I have decided to move my boat so now I will be spending around £1700 - £2000 per year on mooring and winter storage. Mind I am within easy sight of some of the most expensive property in the land.
Oh and get it copper coated then don’t have to worry about the bottom paint so often.

I wouldn’t call myself Poor - As I choose to own a boat, not sure how much you need to earn to have something bright and shinny. But my very healthy wage doesn’t make it possible. Maybe if I could write it off to Tax then I would be ok 😂
Like wise my mortgage on a non expensive house takes 38% of my basic wage or around 25% of my actual earnings after Tax Ah so thinking about this my house is taking all of my money not my boat.
Maybe I should buy a bigger boat and live aboard.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by owly

Being a poor man, there are two big cost factors that make multihulls and especially cats attractive.

One is the ability to exist comfortably at anchor without rolling all over. That means being able to live aboard almost anywhere, and in particular in the shallows where other boats cannot go. This gives you both quality of life.........I like solitude and quiet, and low expense .....I'm a poor man. This also applies on passage........ just watch masts.
Another is being able to take the ground, which in theory means avoiding boatyard expenses / travel lift costs........... but how many locations have enough tidal range AND will tolerate someone scraping his bottom and perhaps even applying bottom paint? I suspect that one might be run off for trying this in some places. What is the reality?? Of course most folks never try such a thing.....It's easier just to pay........ assuming you have the money to spend.
Of course along with the motion of a multihull there is the vast amount of deck space, and the fact that they are safer by far in rough weather than a monohull statistically though people obsess about capsize ..... which virtually never happens in real world offshore voyaging.... at least with cats.

Lying in the mud on your back and scraping the hulls can be done, but it's not very pleasant and there are some spots that can't be reached.
Applying antifouling paint between tides isn't very successful either.
I slip my mono every 2 1/2 years and occasionally go for a dive and scrub the hull.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Redreuben

Use one of the copper clad type bottom treatments so you don’t have to scrape your toxins off on someone’s beach.
Most of them just need going over with a scourer type pad or wet and dry paper at worst and you can do that in the shallows without beaching.

He said that he is poor...

[Kurlie1]

I have a 34ft Ocean Spirit

My beaching is only 100m from my mooring. I clean her off very 3 months or so. No damage to the environment if done regularly

[alitaptap]

In Philippines 1.3-1.9M high-tide range you can haul out on beach so long as you clean up the mess; some villages/towns require a permit (around US$10) to use the beach, some do not.

In the Philippines alternative options to haul out catamarans at conventional slipways etc. are very few so beaches are used for this purpose most frequently.

Attached is an photo of a 44-foot Farrier hauled out in Minolo Bay, Puerto Galera, for anti-foul and survey, last month. Supported on sand bags to provide better access to the largest area of hull.

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by owly

Being a poor man, there are two big cost factors that make multihulls and especially cats attractive.

One is the ability to exist comfortably at anchor without rolling all over. That means being able to live aboard almost anywhere, and in particular in the shallows where other boats cannot go. This gives you both quality of life.........I like solitude and quiet, and low expense .....I'm a poor man. This also applies on passage........ just watch masts.
Another is being able to take the ground, which in theory means avoiding boatyard expenses / travel lift costs........... but how many locations have enough tidal range AND will tolerate someone scraping his bottom and perhaps even applying bottom paint? I suspect that one might be run off for trying this in some places. What is the reality?? Of course most folks never try such a thing.....It's easier just to pay........ assuming you have the money to spend.
Of course along with the motion of a multihull there is the vast amount of deck space, and the fact that they are safer by far in rough weather than a monohull statistically though people obsess about capsize ..... which virtually never happens in real world offshore voyaging.... at least with cats.

Well for one thing there are thousands of mono-hulls with different types of underwater appendages that allow them to beach themselves, many of these appendages are adjustable in nature., centerboards, dagger boards, leeboards, and lifting keels. My Presto 36 was designed in 1884, is a true centerboarder with no external keel, which has a 9"X 6" X 15' lead “grounding shoe” and is specifically designed to “Take the ground upright". As to your accretion that multi's are safer in rough weather, that is simply not true. A multi-hull is generally safer due to its shallow draft and NOT it's beam. This per Adlard Coles, "Heavy Weather Sailing", 4th Edition. However, a shallow drafted mono-hull, equipped with adjustable underwater appendages, that can be drawn up into the hull, has all the advantages of the shallow draft multi's in breaking seas, but without the disadvantages of an unrecoverable capsize.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

As to your accretion that multi's are safer in rough weather, that is simply not true. A multi-hull is generally safer due to its shallow draft and NOT it's beam. This per Adlard Coles, "Heavy Weather Sailing", 4th Edition. However, a shallow drafted mono-hull, equipped with adjustable underwater appendages, that can be drawn up into the hull, has all the advantages of the shallow draft multi's in breaking seas, but without the disadvantages of an unrecoverable capsize.

I think you need to do a bit more reading.



https://shuttleworthdesign.com/Heavy...r-article.html

[GRIT]

I'm quoting Seabeau: "However, a shallow drafted mono-hull, equipped with adjustable underwater appendages, that can be drawn up into the hull, has all the advantages of the shallow draft multi's in breaking seas, but without the disadvantages of an unrecoverable capsize."

End quote.


I don't like to be argumentative, but that smells a bit like hogwash to me.

Shallow draft monohulls are not very comfortable in big breaking seas, (or rolly anchorages) they're just not stable enough. If you have a weighted daggerboard, and it's down, then maybe; but you're no longer shallow draft then. On top of that; a shallow draft monohull has a harder time re-righting itself. You may turn turtle, and re-right once, or twice, but the boat will likely be a wreck, or possibly sunk by the second time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-monohull, (and I love Alubat, and Garcia boats) but logically speaking, a shallow draft, dagger/or swing keel monohull (with the keel up) is not very stable. The OP said he wanted a boat that didn't roll at anchor. And I will argue that beam does matter. Narrow boats aren't stable, wide boats are stable.

I'm not making an argument for keel cats, that's beyond my experience.
But as far as daggerboard cats, I can say ours is far and away much more stable/comfortable, and safe than our old monohulls, in any sea conditions I've encountered so far. Not that I've been in large breaking seas with this boat yet, but I have been in 20 foot confused seas in the gulf stream, off florida, in both boats, and there's really no comparison.

Have you much heavy weather experience? 30-40 knots isn't what I mean. Large breaking seas will require much more wind than that, unless you're in a current. I've been in the stream with winds counter to the stream at more than 40 knots. It's awe inspiring, afterward, and quite frightening at the time. At least in our old keeled monohull where the spreaders were leaving wakes in the backs of the waves.

When it comes down to big breaking seas, I'd want a boat with:
1. Hi stability.
2. A long waterline; which contributes to stability, but also allows you to get away from the nasty stuff more quickly. The bigger the boat, the better.
3. Survivability: that means staying afloat.

Others may disagree; but I think most long-time, long-distance cruisers will have those three qualities in their top 5 "wish list", for storm conditions, in whatever order pleases them.

Cheers.
Paul.

PS. I apologize for contributing to the thread drift. I won't respond to counter arguments on this thread. Mea Culpa.

[owly]

Originally Posted by GRIT

I'm quoting Seabeau: "However, a shallow drafted mono-hull, equipped with adjustable underwater appendages, that can be drawn up into the hull, has all the advantages of the shallow draft multi's in breaking seas, but without the disadvantages of an unrecoverable capsize."

End quote.


I don't like to be argumentative, but that smells a bit like hogwash to me.

Shallow draft monohulls are not very comfortable in big breaking seas, (or rolly anchorages) they're just not stable enough. If you have a weighted daggerboard, and it's down, then maybe; but you're no longer shallow draft then. On top of that; a shallow draft monohull has a harder time re-righting itself. You may turn turtle, and re-right once, or twice, but the boat will likely be a wreck, or possibly sunk by the second time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-monohull, (and I love Alubat, and Garcia boats) but logically speaking, a shallow draft, dagger/or swing keel monohull (with the keel up) is not very stable. The OP said he wanted a boat that didn't roll at anchor. And I will argue that beam does matter. Narrow boats aren't stable, wide boats are stable.

I'm not making an argument for keel cats, that's beyond my experience.
But as far as daggerboard cats, I can say ours is far and away much more stable/comfortable, and safe than our old monohulls, in any sea conditions I've encountered so far. Not that I've been in large breaking seas with this boat yet, but I have been in 20 foot confused seas in the gulf stream, off florida, in both boats, and there's really no comparison.

Have you much heavy weather experience? 30-40 knots isn't what I mean. Large breaking seas will require much more wind than that, unless you're in a current. I've been in the stream with winds counter to the stream at more than 40 knots. It's awe inspiring, afterward, and quite frightening at the time. At least in our old keeled monohull where the spreaders were leaving wakes in the backs of the waves.

When it comes down to big breaking seas, I'd want a boat with:
1. Hi stability.
2. A long waterline; which contributes to stability, but also allows you to get away from the nasty stuff more quickly. The bigger the boat, the better.
3. Survivability: that means staying afloat.

Others may disagree; but I think most long-time, long-distance cruisers will have those three qualities in their top 5 "wish list", for storm conditions, in whatever order pleases them.

Cheers.
Paul.

PS. I apologize for contributing to the thread drift. I won't respond to counter arguments on this thread. Mea Culpa.

The thread drift is MY fault..... I brought it up in the initial post...... almost an invitation for someone to haul out the tired old trope about "recoverable" versus "unrecoverable" capsize giving monohulls a clear advantage. The monohull can and will knockdown and / or capsize far more easily from all accounts, and in storm conditions are quite often unrecoverable and abandoned. Capsize of a catamaran... a well designed one anyway in storm conditions is extremely rare usually due to bad seamanship / storm tactics. It would be hard to argue with a straight face for example that one had a better chance during the Queen's Birthday Storm...... There have been many incidents illustrating this, though few illustrating it so clearly, with the two side by side more or less. One Wharram cat sailed right through the famous Fastnet storm thinking it rather unpleasant weather, but reaching their destination without incident. There will always be a deep divide over this issue making it hardly worth discussion. Just like politics........ No matter how passionately one believes his position, he isn't going to change someone else's position once it is established.... I personally have read a great deal on the subject and have not arrived at my position lightly. End of story as far as I'm concerned. Just for fun, read and enjoy Hey Ho and Up She Rises 1968 Sports Illustrated

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

I think you need to do a bit more reading.



https://shuttleworthdesign.com/Heavy...r-article.html

Do I? My information comes straight from Shuttleworth's (chapter 28) in Cole's 4th edition, printed in 1992. Shallow drafted boats of all types, mono or multi, slide sideways when struck with breaking seas. Deep drafted boats "trip" on their own keels, get "knocked down" and sometime capsize.

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by GRIT

I'm quoting Seabeau: "However, a shallow drafted mono-hull, equipped with adjustable underwater appendages, that can be drawn up into the hull, has all the advantages of the shallow draft multi's in breaking seas, but without the disadvantages of an unrecoverable capsize."

End quote.


I don't like to be argumentative, but that smells a bit like hogwash to me.

Shallow draft monohulls are not very comfortable in big breaking seas, (or rolly anchorages) they're just not stable enough. If you have a weighted daggerboard, and it's down, then maybe; but you're no longer shallow draft then. On top of that; a shallow draft monohull has a harder time re-righting itself. You may turn turtle, and re-right once, or twice, but the boat will likely be a wreck, or possibly sunk by the second time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-monohull, (and I love Alubat, and Garcia boats) but logically speaking, a shallow draft, dagger/or swing keel monohull (with the keel up) is not very stable. The OP said he wanted a boat that didn't roll at anchor. And I will argue that beam does matter. Narrow boats aren't stable, wide boats are stable.

I'm not making an argument for keel cats, that's beyond my experience.
But as far as daggerboard cats, I can say ours is far and away much more stable/comfortable, and safe than our old monohulls, in any sea conditions I've encountered so far. Not that I've been in large breaking seas with this boat yet, but I have been in 20 foot confused seas in the gulf stream, off florida, in both boats, and there's really no comparison.

Have you much heavy weather experience? 30-40 knots isn't what I mean. Large breaking seas will require much more wind than that, unless you're in a current. I've been in the stream with winds counter to the stream at more than 40 knots. It's awe inspiring, afterward, and quite frightening at the time. At least in our old keeled monohull where the spreaders were leaving wakes in the backs of the waves.

When it comes down to big breaking seas, I'd want a boat with:
1. Hi stability.
2. A long waterline; which contributes to stability, but also allows you to get away from the nasty stuff more quickly. The bigger the boat, the better.
3. Survivability: that means staying afloat.

Others may disagree; but I think most long-time, long-distance cruisers will have those three qualities in their top 5 "wish list", for storm conditions, in whatever order pleases them.

Cheers.
Paul.

PS. I apologize for contributing to the thread drift. I won't respond to counter arguments on this thread. Mea Culpa.

Smells like physics to me. Shallower drafted boats are much less susceptible to the danger of breaking waves than deep keeled boats. They simply slide sideways when struck.

[GRIT]

Owly: An interesting article. Thanks for posting.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

Do I? My information comes straight from Shuttleworth's (chapter 28) in Cole's 4th edition, printed in 1992. Shallow drafted boats of all types, mono or multi, slide sideways when struck with breaking seas. Deep drafted boats "trip" on their own keels, get "knocked down" and sometime capsize.

True and I agree, but you have to consider the stability curves for the two different types.

[catsketcher]

I like John Marple's idea that multihulls are great boats is because they can be very shoal draft whilst not reducing seaworthiness or interior amenity.
A cat, as opposed to a trimaran and far more than a shoal draft mono, has a large resistance to wave generated capsize because of its far greater roll moment of inertia. Roll moment of inertia is determined by how spread apart large masses are. Increasing roll moment increases the resistance of an object to rolling over in beam on waves.

As such, a shoal draft mono of similar length would almost always have a lower roll moment of inertia than a cat. So a cat resists waves breaking abeam better than monos. Add on the extra stability at low heel angles (compared to monos) and the maths says cats and monos have far different characterstics in large waves.

Richard Woods is the guy to come in here. He did tank tests in the Southampton wave tank with cat models. Whilst tank testing cat models, he found it impossible to get cat models to capsize whereas the mono models could be capsized.

https://www.sailingcatamarans.com/in...ability-part-3

Thanks for the article. Great stuff from back in the day.