Big catamaran 45+ single hand friendly

[PineyWoodsPete]

In very adverse docking conditions with both significant wind and current setting you off, the twin engine side-to-dock dance becomes impossible sngle-handed.

One technique I found in our FP Antigua 37 that worked even single-handed was to back up to the dock, which is pretty simple. With a scoop-end and side fenders rigged, and with a long line secured to that side's mid-ship cleat, step off the near scoop with engines still in reverse and line in hand, securing it to nearest dock cleat. Re-board and put the outside engine in FWD, which will tension the line, pulling hull against dock. Throw bow and stern lines on dock and secure with engine still holdiing boat in place, shut down and rig your springs, etc.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Grimgrak

Also are certain makes/models better for single handing?
Radar is only as good as the radar reflector if it's put up.
Unless your talking metal hulls.
Technology is what this thread is about if you want to rely on eyeballs and a compass get rid of your autopilot and engines then it's not the intent of the thread.

Cats that have a center helm position like the Schoinnings make it difficult to see all four corners unless you're hopping around - in which case you can't steer or man the throttles. Knysna has a nice starboard helm that's raised a bit so you can see the whole boat. I have no use for those dual helmed boats. That is a feature that is designed for racing and who's zooming who here? I assume you're talking about cruising features as nobody races a big cat single handed.

[Jeannius]

PineyWoodsPete... That's the way to do it

[Mrfish]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Bow thrusters on a large cat.???
Invest in a boat handling course.. with twin engines you should be able to spin on a dime or crab into a gap 8ft longer than your LOA.

Agreed

[Grimgrak]

Interesting no one has chimed in with a 50+ footer

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Grimgrak

Interesting no one has chimed in with a 50+ footer

I did. Mine’s 50 LWL. 25’ beam.

It’s high windage due to high freeboard and a beast to handle docking in a blow because it has dagger boards, which I kept retracted and weighs next to nothing. My 90lbs girlfriend pushes it around at the dock in calm weather like it’s nothing. So... when the wind picks up, it is a quite a handful.

It does 3-4 knots with no motors, no rig, no sails in a blow.

That’s why this thread is so interesting to me.

I’m trying to learn how to tame the beast when docking.

[barnakiel]

It is true that bow thrusters are not very common as cats have already very good maneuverability under their twin engines.


However, I have seen cats with bowthrusters. So you can get what you want if you decide later it is desirable. I have also seen a cat with just one thruster. It seemed to work OK too.



And side lights can be had too, although in my experience many docks are well lit and good spreader (if spreaders are present - some cat masts do not have spreaders) fitted deck lights seem to have big enough cone of light to help with this challenge too. Easy to fit in any case.


Thermal imaging is available (google for 'flir').


Forward looking sonars exist too, but their usefulness in avoiding collisions is doubtful. Still they are very useful in shallow and sloping anchorages.


Cheers,
barnakiel

[Grimgrak]

Why are forward facing sonars so lacking in terms of distance typically under 100M vs the depth sounding sonar that go so much further?

[PineyWoodsPete]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I did. Mine’s 50 LWL. 25’ beam.

It’s high windage due to high freeboard and a beast to handle docking in a blow because it has dagger boards, which I kept retracted and weighs next to nothing. My 90lbs girlfriend pushes it around at the dock in calm weather like it’s nothing. So... when the wind picks up, it is a quite a handful.

It does 3-4 knots with no motors, no rig, no sails in a blow.

That’s why this thread is so interesting to me.

I’m trying to learn how to tame the beast when docking.

So with a blow on your beam keeping you off the dock, the only practical way to get your mate ashore with a line is to back into the wind with a stern scoop touching as I described above, then motoring fwd to tense the mid-ship cleated line which pulls you against the dock...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Grimgrak

Why are forward facing sonars so lacking in terms of distance typically under 100M vs the depth sounding sonar that go so much further?

Depth offer less interference.. just fish or extreme temprature changes.
Forward facing sonar lacks the depth required in less than calm waters to be effective.. it would need to be at least 6ft in my opinion to achieve 50% truth.
But likely someone knows better..

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Grimgrak

Why are forward facing sonars so lacking in terms of distance typically under 100M vs the depth sounding sonar that go so much further?

Dollar bills. The military has good stuff that requires lots of power and costs big bucks; more than a nice 45+ foot cat.

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by Grimgrak

Why are forward facing sonars so lacking in terms of distance typically under 100M vs the depth sounding sonar that go so much further?

It depends on what you are looking for. The technology may well have improved, but my experience a while ago with the recreational marine devices is that they were not very useful.

I believe the reason is to do with the discrimination of the beam and interference. Imagine a cone shaped beam facing forward and angled down so that it does not intersect with the waters surface which will give a false reading/reflection. In deep water that beam will show the bottom or deep obstructions at quite a distance, but will not show shallow objects near the surface as they are above the beam. In shallow water the majority of the beam hits the bottom quite close to the bow and that reflection overwhelms any information you might have got from further away.

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by PineyWoodsPete

So with a blow on your beam keeping you off the dock, the only practical way to get your mate ashore with a line is to back into the wind with a stern scoop touching as I described above, then motoring fwd to tense the mid-ship cleated line which pulls you against the dock...

With our boat we would have done it slightly differently, approaching with the bow not our stern, but similar principal.
- daggerboards down about 1/2 to reduce wind effect
- crew on port bow with doubled short bow line
- approach at whatever angle you can manage, maybe 45 degrees, port side towards dock as our engine controls were at the port helm
- bring port bow to dock so crew is beside and above a cleat on the dock
- crew drops/lassoes doubled line over cleat and secures it back onboard
- once line is secured (this is very important) firmly fwd on port engine, reverse on stbd engine, and for additional effect wheel turned to the right if your prop is ahead of your rudder
- play the engines to keep forward and reverse balanced so the bow line is tense and roughly perpendicular to the dock. There will be lots of pressure on the bow line so it must be secured not held. For this reason it is usually best managed from the boat, not handed to someone on the dock.
- the stern will now walk in, even against quite a strong breeze
- drop a doubled stern line over a suitable cleat on the dock and if the bow is too far out, reverse the engines and pivot it in using the stern line
- engines in neutral, add extra lines as desired

We all practiced lassoing cleats from the deck of the boat. It doesn't take long to learn. If we missed the cleat, we would just back out and try again. I do not let crew jump off the boat to secure it. Too many ways for someone to get hurt. They step off once we are secured. (This is not aimed at the previous post where they backed in so the crew could step off. This is aimed at all the skippers whose only plan is to have the crew do heroics because they haven't learnt out how to put the boat where they want it using engines and lines.)

The physics here is a lot like using a spring line on a single engined vessel, except movement along the dock is controlled by the other engine rather than the spring line, and the line is only holding the bow in so it can be short and right at the bow.

You can reverse this procedure to get off a dock, except now the bow will press against the dock (with a fender) and the stern will pivot off. If you get good at the engines, and the fender and bow shapes co-operate, you can do that without any lines as the bow is being pressed straight into the dock, not forwards or backwards.

And depending on the shape of your sterns and bows and the location of your deck cleats, you may want to do it stern first rather than bow first. In our case with vertical bows and long sterns, it was safer to go in bow first.

[jbinbi]

OP. Can't speak to 45, I have had a L380 for the past 5 years after sailing monohulls for the previous 50. My wife or friends usually accompany me, but they don't know how to sail, so I single hand with them or by myself.

Once you have twin engines separated by 20+ feet, you will come to believe you could work piloting for Carnival.

I normally drop/pick up the mooring myself. No issues in up to 20kts in the bay. Sailing is easy yourself with autopilot and electric winches. In fact, when daysailing, I just set the mode to wind, and hit a button on the AP to tack, unload the leeward winch, wrap around the windward, wait, hit the button and it sheets in. I wish I had a newer winch with in/out as well.

Docking is another story. If you have someone on the dock to take a line, it is no issue. In fact, most dockhands don't understand how I want to do things, they want to grab the bowline and muscle it in. All I need them to do, as mentioned above is get the stern on tight at the very aft with a fender. If the wind is blowing towards the dock, you just get blown in. If blowing you off the dock, just fwd on the non dock engine, and it will pivot on the stern line pushing the bow in.

If no one there, it becomes dicier when getting between 2 boats when there is current/wind. Current to me is the bigger issue. Bow thrusters would be a big help here. If you are looking at major manuf models, these boats at 45' will weigh in at 15+ tons. Even the seawind comes in at 12. A bow thruster is no big deal for weight there.

Mark and others above have good advice. But a bow thruster would not be a bad thing if you are single handed docking without help on the dock.

[barnakiel]

One thing is power.


Another thing is surface chatter.


Not all dangerous UFOs are large steel containers (these mostly sink). Some are deadheads. ;-(



b.