Blue-Water Ready Cat vs. Charter Cat to Refit

[heizer1]

Dear fellow Sailors,

we are currently in the process of buying a catamaran and follow 2 different streams (and actually negotiating those). We are unsure of what we like to pursue and are looking for some advise.

Background / our Plan: Buy a catamaran now, go sailing on it for 6-8 weeks per season and move aboard in 2-3 years. Then go ahead and circumnavigate. We're both right under 30 and working in IT. When we move aboard we would have the chance to potentially work part time in our jobs, but we also want to have the flexibility for some years of full time cruising.

Also, we want to use this time to get more and more familiar with the boat and our requirements instead of chartering cats for a lot of money.

Now we have the following two options:

1. Get a fully louded bluewater-ready Catamaran now with a major refit in 2019 for 250k € (Broadblue 42)
2. Get an Ex-charter Lavezzi 40 with charter equipment for 150k € and then let it refit (new motors, osmosis, bluewater equipment like radar, watermaker etc.) for another 80-90k€

Pricewise, option 2 wins. Another advantage would be that we could keep boat number 2 in charter. We have the numbers from the last couple of years and if Covid doesn't#t hit anymore we should be able to maintain her in charter (including all costs related, like Insurance) without additional costs.
We know the charter company very well and they are trustworthy, also they would help us in refitting the boat (including motor change, osmosis treatment et cetera.)

Next to the higher initial purchase price there would be annual costs on the Broadblue boat of appr. 25.000 € (berthing, insurance, maintenance incl. big ticket items) as we wouldn't want to put this boat into charter. Advantage would be that it is in the Meds already (we're from Germany), whilst the other boat is in the carribbean.

So, overall we're speaking for boat number 1 (Broadblue) of costs for the next 2 years of 280.000 €, whilst boat number 2 has costs of 240.000 €

The big question is now - is it worth spending 60.000 € more or not?

I'm leaning towards the Broadblue, as it seems to be the better boat overall and I'd like the advantage of having it nearby, whilst my wife favours the Lavezzi, as she is cheaper and we really love the carribean to go there sailing.

What would you do and why?

Really appreciate your feedback and input,
heizer

[Jeannius]

Hi Heizer... My experience of having a boat in charter in the Caribbean says that once a boat is more than 5 years old, charter income drops rapidly and maintenance goes up. So if you are buying the Lavezzi with the hope of putting it in charter think very carefully about that. Also, after putting it in charter for 2-3 years, those nice new bits of equipment will get plenty of abuse. Don't get me wrong, chartering worked very well for me, for the first 5 years, less well after that.

As you are young, you also need to consider re-sale value. 5 years from now, a Broadblue 42 is going to have retained far more of its value than a Lavezzi.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Heizer:

If you want to spend more time working on it than sailing, get the Lavezzi. The Yanks say, "happy wife = happy life."

On the other hand, if you want to go sailing more than working, get the ready to go boat and learn along the way. The ex-charter boat is likely to be tired--they are worked pretty hard, and I would expect many expensive repairs, which should be added to the purchase costs. Be sure your frugal wife understands that either way, ready now or charter, you will bleed money whenever it needs fixing. Marina fees, parts fees, marine service providers fees, and insurances. Yachting is not a good fit for a "cheap" person, imo.

Ann

[tkeithlu]

Ann has it. Don't put a price on a refit. It will be more than you thought. Don't start with a boat that will tie you to the yard when you should be sailing. Project boats are not for beginners.Better to get something modest that is ready to sail than a boat that just needs a few little repairs. There's no such thing.

[KompetentKrew]

How much sailing experience do you have?

[heizer1]

Hi Guys,

thank you very much for you're thoughts. I'm sailing for 15 years know for about 2 weeks a year on a charter, used to sail as a kid on small sailboat on a river as well. My wife just startet last year.

But almost all of my time sailing was on monohulls, so a lot so learn there.

I guess that the Broadblue is quite a complex boat, but the owner promised me to help me as long as we need for takeover and my father is quite an experienced sailor who also could help us in that terms.


Regards
Timo

[Parttime Sailor]

Hello Heizer1,

I don't have the answer for what would be right for you but you may be able to get some insight from a sailing VLOG. On Youtube, search on "The O'kelly's" and look for their video "Converting a Bareboat Charter Catamaran to Full-time cruiser." They go through how much money and time they spent bringing a charter cat up to scratch for full time cruising.

Personally, I'd be inclined to choose the Broadblue and spend more time sailing.

-Parttime Sailor and also a Heizer (US)

[skipmac]

Hi Timo,

I do agree with most previous comments. Specifically

- Refit of the Lavezzi will almost certainly cost more and take longer than you think. Even after 50 years of owning boats that included major overhauls of two sailboats I still prove this every time I work on a boat project. The joke about this which is often very true, any boat project you plan will take twice as long and cost twice as much as you estimate.

- And if you do refit the Lavezzi if you put it back into charter it will see a lot of use and abuse. One benefit to buying a boat to fix up is when you're done you will have all new motors, electronics, etc to go cruising. But putting the boat into charter you will completely lose this advantage.

- €25,000/year for berthing, insurance, maintenance etc sounds a bit high for the Broad Blue if the major refit in 2019 was comprehensive.

Not familiar with the Broad Blue but other comments indicate it is a higher quality boat than the Lavezzi. I would seriously consider that in my decision making process as well.

[KompetentKrew]

The reason I asked your experience is that these strike me as quite different boats - the Broadblue seems designed for the Solent and the south coast of England, which is a delightful place to sail during the summer.

The Broadblue has good shelter for the elements if it pisses with rain all the way to Brighton or Dartmouth, but the mass-produced catamarans like the Lavezzi (Lagoon etc) seem to have a much better layout, provided they are equipped with a honking great bimini, for the kind of sailing that sensible people might desire.

Having said that, the Lavezzi model appears to be now 20 years old - in my experience, these mass-produced boats start to wear heavily after 8 or 10 years. Manufacturers like Beneteau and Jeanneau achieved their success by building to a price - if you can afford €170,000 for a 38' Jeanneau, why would you spend €170,000 on a 33' boat from some other manufacturer? The original owner is unlikely to appreciate build quality which will last 30+ years.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a mass produced boat, but charter beats the hell out of them.

These are also very large boats for a couple - not a question of whether you can handle them, but whether you really want the berthing costs and maintenance. If you haven't owned a boat before it's easy to underestimate the amount of maintenance required - and you want to do it yourself, not only because of the cost but also so you know it's done right.

If you could bring yourself to fall in love with monohulls then you could get a better boat (newer, higher quality) for the same money. Clearly catamarans are more comfortable for entertaining and on passage, but IMO a 40' monohull is a very comfortable size for a couple. Mine has a 1m² table in the salon, plenty large enough for dinner guests or two people's laptops.

[Stewie12]

When refitting a boat it is going to probably cost you double your estimated cost and a heap of problems on the way. Plus it is unlikely you will get your money back on it. I would go for Broadblue surveyed and try to get the price down after the survey. At least you will know what you are getting rather than " How long is a piece of string "

[johnnyH]

Pay me now or pay me a lot later. When you buy cheap that is precisely what you get. there is a reason that it is cheap....it is worn out and it will be expensive to repair

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by heizer1

Background / our Plan: Buy a catamaran now, go sailing on it for 6-8 weeks per season and move aboard in 2-3 years. Then go ahead and circumnavigate. We're both right under 30 and working in IT. When we move aboard we would have the chance to potentially work part time in our jobs, but we also want to have the flexibility for some years of full time cruising.


Now we have the following two options:



1. Get a fully louded bluewater-ready Catamaran now with a major refit in 2019 for 250k € (Broadblue 42)

We have really similar backgrounds, I’m part of an IT startup that has been taking off. I’m also planning an escape and will work from my vessel for a few years before making a full breakaway. We’ll only do easy hoping while a full time job is still the priority.

That being said, would you like a job?

Also, do whatever maximizes your time. Time enjoying the boat or time at work. Don’t become a ship right. I was one in a past before entering into tech. Your time is better spent searching for another vessel and saving some bucks.

You have the ability to work from anywhere in the world and make a decent living. Take advantage of that.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hello, Heizer:

If you want to spend more time working on it than sailing, get the Lavezzi. The Yanks say, "happy wife = happy life."

On the other hand, if you want to go sailing more than working, get the ready to go boat and learn along the way. The ex-charter boat is likely to be tired--they are worked pretty hard, and I would expect many expensive repairs, which should be added to the purchase costs. Be sure your frugal wife understands that either way, ready now or charter, you will bleed money whenever it needs fixing. Marina fees, parts fees, marine service providers fees, and insurances. Yachting is not a good fit for a "cheap" person, imo.

Ann

What Ann describes has certainly been confirmed by our experience. We initially planned to buy a catamaran out of charter service but after chartering boats from Moorings, Sunsail, Dream Yacht charters et al companies, we discovered the abuse and inadequate or downright negligent maintenance that pervades the industry. It got to where I took a "fix-it" bag on every charter so that we wouldn't have to spend part of our vacation waiting to have the boat fixed. Later when we were ready to purchase we looked at several cats recently retired from service and they were train wrecks. This was before they had gone through the phase out process where everything is supposed to be returned to "like new" condition. However, after seeing how their maintenance department fixed things while the boat was in service, I wasn't about to trust them to do it right when the boat was on its way out the door.

We wound up buying a Leopard 39, ready to sail, all systems working and were underway, making way within 30 days of purchase.

Lastly, keep in mind that the charter boat does not have all the equipment you might want for real cruising: no water maker, no down wind sails, often no dinghy, no radar, no tools, no extra parts, few if any fenders, worn out mooring lines, questionable running rigging, no storm anchor, etc., etc. A blue water boat ready to cruise will quite often have these amenities and more.

Definitely a happy wife makes for a happy life. If saving money adds to her happiness, then IMO buying a worn out, poorly maintained former charter boat that is not set up for real world cruising will not support that goal.

btw, having a cost conscious wife, or husband for that matter, is an absolute invaluable asset. My wife is the main reason we are solvent and can buy and enjoy a boat. Treasure her advice and input. I'm sure with the information provided by other posts herein it will be clear to your financial partner that purchasing a boat out of charter service will not result in significant cost savings and in fact could cost you a whole lot more.

[letsgetsailing3]

It should be noted that there are more options than just these two.


These are just two options that are quite different.

[heizer1]

Dear forum members

Another testimony of how valuable the cruisers forum community is and how much we can learn, we really appreciate your feedback and will proceed with the Broadblue.
Regards