BMW Oracle Evaluating Monos and Multis . . .

[Stillraining]

I'm talking in America...Most of Europe has better coverage...but we'll get better someday.....

Now back to sailing.

My point was the money/boats was so huge last challenge that few countries could participate if they wanted to let alone any sailing organizations....It needs to be paired way down....Looks like they are doing that and Im happy about that.

Id like to see 50 Country's building boats and vying for the Challenge rights .

Ya the boats were fun to keep up with during unveiling and trials..and the demasting and subsequent wing addition was a cool move but I yawned during the race...and the prefect sailing condition thing just turned me right off for the rest of the races.

Im just one guy...one opinion..

[Factor]

Sail Racing can be exciting on the screen - you just have to have the right boats

try

Lunatic Sailing

For example

or

Brossard and Wake boards

And to rub it in - try

Quite depressing

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by axel&andie

... "soccer" or football as 99% of the world rightly calls it, is by a massive, massive margin, THE largest spectator sport in the world ...

By any measure, including number of
Fans/viewers
Players/participants
Revenue

Frequently Cited Sports Rankings:
1) Football/Soccer: 3.3-3.5 billion fans (Europe, Africa, Asia, Americas, etc.)
2) Cricket: 2-3 billion fans (India, UK, Pakistan, Asia, Australia, etc.)
3) Field hockey: 2-2.2 billion fans (Asia, Europe, Africa, Australia)
4) Tennis: Around 1 billion fans (Europe, Americas, Asia)
5) Volleyball: Around 900 million fans (Asia, Europe, Americas, Australia)
6) Table tennis: Around 900 million fans (Asia, Europe, Africa, Americas)
7) Baseball: Around 500 million fans (US, Japan, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Canada)
8) Golf: Around 400 million fans (US, Canada, Europe)
9) Gridiron (American football): 390-410 million fans (US, Canada mainly)
10) Basketball: Not more than 400 million fans (US, Canada mainly)

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by Factor

Sail Racing can be exciting on the screen - you just have to have the right boats

Totally agreed!

And sail them in whatever nature dishes out for the day.

Get coverage footage like that of the races on TV and not only the world and a better part at least of short attention span sound bite mentality Americans will tune in and get excited....including me...

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Factor

Sail Racing can be exciting on the screen - you just have to have the right boats

try

For example

or

And to rub it in - try

But the excitement comes from match-racing and with multis that's unlikely or impossible, as we saw in AC33. The boats themselves were impressive and fascinating - for sailors - but then how long does the interest last even for us?

[speakeasy]

I found the last cup races a yawn, with a bit of that's sort of interesting thrown in. What with 3 years of legal challenges, with robber baron's one-upmanship, and cutting edge machines on steroids that can't sail if the wind blows hard and have nothing in common with 99.9% of sailors worldwide, I thought the whole thing was a death knell for the America's Cup. Not to mention the background history ongoing at the time of wealthy elites in Finance nearly crashing the global economic structure to the ground after sending tens of millions of solid middle class jobs offshore, impoverishing millions of families in first world economies.

I'd like to see what was mentioned earlier, of many dozens of challengers designing and building and sailing boats, monos, within strict limits on size, so there would be some reasonably fair comparison and competition that would make the cup an actual sporting event. That would, IMO, garner a much wider audience than the crappy contest between billionaires that it has evolved into.

[sarafina]

looks like a possibility of a much more interesting match next time...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...4-a-40506.html

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by sneuman

But the excitement comes from match-racing and with multis that's unlikely or impossible, as we saw in AC33. The boats themselves were impressive and fascinating - for sailors - but then how long does the interest last even for us?

I'm not sure about that. For me the most photogenic of the AC's was the 87 cup in Perth because of the dramatic sea conditions. Certainly the match racing is interesting. However just because we all grew up associating match racing with 12 meters in light summer conditions off Newport doesn't make that the be all and end all of match racing. A match race is just a race between two boats. What makes an interesting match race is debatable but if it includes lots of passing possibilities and close racing there is no reason that it can't be done in fast boats like racing multihulls as long as they have similar speed potential. In AC33 the racing was not close because one boat was 5% faster than the other. In the previous AC the difference between the best version 5 boats and the worst was a small faction of that because the boats were built to a mature rule with a very small design space. If 33 was sailed in monos with anything like a 5% speed difference over such large courses it would not have been any more of a race. And, of course, the venerable NYYC will host the international C class championships. As has been done for many years the champion will be the winner of the match racing series. Multis are perfectly capable of match racing.

Tom

[axel&andie]

Originally Posted by GordMay

By any measure, including number of
Fans/viewers
Players/participants
Revenue

Frequently Cited Sports Rankings:
1) Football/Soccer: 3.3-3.5 billion fans (Europe, Africa, Asia, Americas, etc.)
2) Cricket: 2-3 billion fans (India, UK, Pakistan, Asia, Australia, etc.)
3) Field hockey: 2-2.2 billion fans (Asia, Europe, Africa, Australia)
4) Tennis: Around 1 billion fans (Europe, Americas, Asia)
5) Volleyball: Around 900 million fans (Asia, Europe, Americas, Australia)
6) Table tennis: Around 900 million fans (Asia, Europe, Africa, Americas)
7) Baseball: Around 500 million fans (US, Japan, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Canada)
8) Golf: Around 400 million fans (US, Canada, Europe)
9) Gridiron (American football): 390-410 million fans (US, Canada mainly)
10) Basketball: Not more than 400 million fans (US, Canada mainly)

I'd think that the number of basketball fans worldwide is much greater than 400 mil. It's huge in most of Europe (esp Italy, Spain, France, Turkey, Russia) and parts of Asia.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by sneuman

But the excitement comes from match-racing and with multis that's unlikely or impossible,

Rubbish - did you not watch the lunatic trimaran video? the most exciting thing about match racing 12 metres was watching Australia II win and watching Audtralia III sink.

I mean that statement simply has no logical support. Thats like saying the world rally championship would be more exciting if we made the cars twice as heavy , half as fast.

This isnt about monos and multis - no matter how much you and sara and others want to make it, its about wealthy dickheads stuffing a sport. To suggest only monos can have interesting sail boat racing is not just silly - its absurd.

[sarafina]

Excuse me Factor?

I have no investment in the mono multi debate. I am mostly interested in how the next race will be set up and how that will result in a race that has more to do with sailing skill than pure technology. A balance between the two perhaps.

I don't give a rats ass how many hulls the boats have.

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by speakeasy

...
I'd like to see what was mentioned earlier, of many dozens of challengers designing and building and sailing boats, monos, within strict limits on size, so there would be some reasonably fair comparison and competition that would make the cup an actual sporting event. That would, IMO, garner a much wider audience than the crappy contest between billionaires that it has evolved into.

Hey, it started as a contest between "billionaires'" (inflation adjusted) -- didn't need to evolve at all .

I prefer multi's but that is a just a matter of taste -- I don't suspect they'd be magically transformational. I think everyone agrees that the boats need to be "affordable" enough so that there are some competitors. Lots of monos has been tried and it hasn't taken the media world by storm yet. Most of the teams in the big series were not competitive and added little to the interest. It is easy to forget that there has been a lot of pretty boring racing in monos. I watched the 03 races in NZ and the racing was mostly horrible. The Hula failed to make it around the course in two races and was only competitive in one race. Talk about pathetic. But the racing in 32 was edge of the seat stuff... To me the issue isn't mono v multi as such but making sure that the boats in the contest are competitive. The TV thing is still a mystery to me but I suspect a combination of exciting pictures and a dramatic narrative are key.

Tom

[speakeasy]

TSMWebb, I was thinking about the rich man beginning of the cup after I posted. But what makes it different today and one of the subjects here, was what will make it interesting and a broadcast success as well. I don't really care if it's multi's or mono's, but it does seem less likely, to me at least, that multi designs would come out easily to some sort of parity, so seamanship would have the edge in deciding the contest. Perhaps, if true, that's because the design of multi-hulls has not reached it's limits yet, as perhaps mono design has. I'm just not as interested in a spectacle of money and design as much as a contest of seamanship and speed sailing.

Still, seeing what easy targets multi-promo fish are to shoot, I'll have to keep half a dozen arrows for that purpose in my quiver. Big grin, Factor.

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by speakeasy

...t it does seem less likely, to me at least, that multi designs would come out easily to some sort of parity, so seamanship would have the edge in deciding the contest. Perhaps, if true, that's because the design of multi-hulls has not reached it's limits yet, ...

Maybe, there is very close racing in the beach cat development classes (F16&18's) and even in the wide open A class. I think that it is unlikely that the racing will be great on the version one boats in either the motorized canting keel mono class or the multi class. Both are different enough from any existing class that finding the sweet spot in the design space on the first go will be hard. I suspect the multis or the canters would evolve towards equal performance in a generation or two just like the conventional monos and cats have. The stake holders appear to be strongly against the multi option. I'm not at all thrilled with the idea of MOTORIZED canting keel yachts but ETNZ and Team Origin have made it clear that they'd rather race motor boats than multihulls... I'm against motors in sailboat races but they aren't asking me.

Tom.

[speakeasy]

Originally Posted by tsmwebb

I'm not at all thrilled with the idea of MOTORIZED canting keel yachts but ETNZ and Team Origin have made it clear that they'd rather race motor boats than multihulls... I'm against motors in sailboat races but they aren't asking me.

Tom.

We agree. Please inform the Cup Committee of our decision.