Bridle length .... shallow water with current

[Perfect Ride]

Using rubberized fire hose or other high wear hose to cover the forward 6-8 feet of the bridal goes a long way to reduce wear on bottom coral or rocks when in shallow water. Our bridal attachment is at water line and each side of the bridal is slightly longer than the width between hulls at attachment. This length is important to ensure proper loading on hull and on bridal. I normally use a soft shackle to a loop that I use a luggage tie or Prusik for attachment to chain, this tends to hold better than a mantis or other chain hook when the bridal drags. Easy enough to make a new one if it gets worn on the bottom. Proper deployment on bridal has the chain from the roller dropping almost vertically so there is a loop leading to the bridal. That chain weight helps absorb loads as well.

[Rustytony]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Yes, you could.

We agree.

But am I wrong? Does three strand rope have the same elasticity as if the rope were a single strand of triple length?

In other words does macrame on the bridle make it less elastic than if it were longer and unknotted?

[44'cruisingcat]

No, it makes it more elastic, similar to bending steel bar into a coil. There's a "springiness" in the loops. Under load the loops tighten, as load comes off they open back up.

Also there's double the length there would be if the bridles were just straight 3 strand rope.

[StuM]

Macrame? That's a very generic term for decoratively knotted string.


Perhaps it would be better to call it what it is, a chain sinnet. (ABOK #2868)

[Rustytony]

Originally Posted by StuM

Macrame? That's a very generic term for decoratively knotted string.


Perhaps it would be better to call it what it is, a chain sinnet. (ABOK #2868)

I was just going with what it had already been called... but yeah, better to call it by the proper name. Thanks for that... I didn’t have a clue what it was called.

[Montanan]

I love it when I learn something new on this wonderful forum. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the chain sinnet; it made recall such from back in my Sea Scout days, [decades past].

I now know what knot will be used in my rope locker.

Reference to chain sinnet knot:

http://www.bottrell.ca/BoatDocs/Boat...net%20Knot.pdf

Snipet therefrom:

The Chain Sinnet, which is also called a 'daisy chain' is a very easy knot to tie and has several interesting features.
The Chain Sinnet knot:
• Can be tied in various degrees of looseness without losing effectiveness;
• Results in a around a 4.5:1 length reduction and can be quickly deployed at any increment of its length;
• Is highly resistant to tangling and is easily stored;
• Has good shock absorbing characteristics and can be used as a semi-permanent snubber;
• Is often used as a decorative knot for fancy rope work and macramé; and,
• Is the preferred knot for storing and washing rope (see Boater’s Tip on Washing Rope).

My epiphany involving the Chain Sinnet came when trying to quickly deploy a back-up anchor that had been Sea Coiled and stored in a locker – it tangled and I spent precious minutes dealing with the mess while watching my boat drift towards the rocks. The same anchor with the 200’ of rode tied in a Chain Sinnet never tangled and was always easily deployed.
Like most things, there are some down sides to the Chain Sinnet. It takes a few more minutes to do the 'daisy chain' loops than to Sea Coil a line; however, I think the safety factor and ease of storage more than make up for the extra time. Also, it is tougher to tie the knot with old, stiff lines
(esp. 3-strand nylon). Finally, it may take a little longer to deploy the line and it is not suitable for heaving. However, no matter how well I Sea Coil and stow some lines, they almost always get tangled and cause problems during deployment. I've used the Chain Sinnet on lines up to 300' with no worries about stowing, tangles or deployment

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Rustytony

I was just going with what it had already been called... but yeah, better to call it by the proper name. Thanks for that... I didn’t have a clue what it was called.

It goes by a number of names, each correct. E.g. single line braid, monkey knot, daisy chain, etc.

It is a basic "stitch" of crochet, except you don't need hooks when dealing with yacht sized line.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Montanan

• Has good shock absorbing characteristics and can be used as a semi-permanent snubber;
t

Thank you.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Montanan

It goes by a number of names, each correct. E.g. single line braid, .......

And thank you again.

[JamuJoe]

Originally Posted by wannacat

We use a bridle and a killet. Half the time you just spin around the killet and don't have to worry about fouling anything or chafing the hulls.

I like that idea. We’re also in FL aboard our Leopard 42. I deploy enough chain aft of my Y bridle to generally keep the chain low in opposing wind/current situations, but a kellet would serve even better.

[wackerb]

So any ideas what to do where the bridle ends up pulling back under the trampoline due to wind/tidal currents and chafes on the stays running to the bowsprit? The anchor points of the stays ended up having to be reinforced due to the cracking of the hull attachment.

I ended up making a rope bridle inside the stays and securing the end of the v to the stern, effectively putting the anchor connection under the trampoline. Then the chain would rub on the hulls.

If it happens again I'm thinking of a single long snubber line off a bow that keeps the chain low enough that just the line rubs against the hull in the contrary wind/current conditions. BTW, I have a Lagoon 400 with LOTS of freeboard, a "sail" area above the water like that of a jib.

[Sail IC]

I've been anchoring now for a month in shallow waters with strong current. I made a second bridle. My first was a typical Y shaped bridle, with approximately a 60 deg angle to the front beam. Had a problem with the chain rubbing against the hulls in strong opposite current wind conditions.

My second bridle is a V shaped, shorter with approximately. 45 degree angle to the front beam. This moved the bridle hook further away from the hulls.

Ever since I changed to this bridle I have not had any rubbing against the hulls. So happy with the result.

Thanks for all the previous inputs

[Perfect Ride]

A quick note on loads:

a 60 degree (equilateral triangle) results in a .58 times load (tension) on each attachment point with a more forward angle of force than a 45 degree bridal.
a 45 degree results in a .71 times load on each attachment point with an angle more inward.

.58 to .71 is a 22% increase in tension
Depending on your attachment setup, one may be more ideal than the other.
Having the length of each side of the V maximized such that the chain still does not rub can have a reasonable reduction in tensions on the bridal and attachment points.

Hope this helps.

[Sail IC]

I done some calculations too. As an example, with a 45 degree bridle angle using a 16mm twisted nylon together with a 10mm chain, the breaking load on both systems are more or less identical. Loads on the bridal attachment point is of course higher than a 60 degree bridle.

I would not use the 45 degree bridle expecting a 40+ knot wind, but in more normal conditions I'm not that worried about anything breaking.