Bringing a Cross 38 back from the Dead

[DreamBig]

Originally Posted by johnn33

Hi
Any possibility of photos of the worst areas?
John

going to the boat tomorrow, should have a bunch of new footage, and that is on the list for one episode for sure. :-) waiting on 205 to show up, and plywood. Hopefully next week the fun will start,,,, well if it ever decides to stop raining,,, sheeesh!!!!

Cheers,

James

[DreamBig]

Get a portable Honda generator and be done.

Need aircon?
I want to make an aircon watermaker.. Two reasons, it should slow down rot, I will run it to the ama's, also, I should be able to make about 20 gals per day. I am also hoping to do this at around >10 amp draw so I can use it on the bank and solar.I plan to have a honda eu2200 or eu3000
Well they make portable ones too. We actually have a portable one on the boat. It gets the job done, just barely.. lol


Test out that old epoxy first because it can go bad especially if opened.[/QUOTE]

I have hear this, just mix up a batch and see what happens? color off, brittle, doesn't dry?


Thanks for your inputs. Today's video is still cooking, 71%, might make it in just before midnight. lol

Cheer,
James

[DreamBig]

update on boat stuff,

Found a icom ic-m602 vhf, on the boat, No command mic,,, well yet. Still finding stuff. Tested it at home, seems to work well receiving anyway.

found an electric water pump and filter system on the boat, previous owner had no idea.

Started water tank renovations, rain has put a damper on that this week.

Glass, hardener, epoxy primer all showed up this week, no 205 yet,

Found a Richie bulkhead compass on the boat Looks in good shape, have to check declination.

Bought a 2012 14' porta-bote - $450
Sold a boat trailer +$450 and was given another less pretty boat trailer.
bought a 2015 Honda 5 hp -700
Sold a Delta 46" Lathe (got free) +800
net on the week +$100 :-) <---that won't happen often.

Have fixed tears in boat plans, and am ironing out wrinkles (<--- see today video.) Hopefully we will be able to print new ones this week... Terribly excited about this, :-)

Should be at boat half a day tomorrow, and most of the day Saturday, Then the fun may start next week, depending on weather.

Cheers,

James

P.s. todays video is so/so and should be up in about midnight. Tried to chest mount a gopro, and footage was terrible for the most part. Lesson learned, Tripods and nothing fancy right now. :-)

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by DreamBig

I have to fix rot first, I am currently researching and searching both options, if it is an efficiency problem, I hope to not have to motor much in the Bahamas and Caribbean, Might have to in gulf and gulf coast of Florida.. I am sure I will turn that motor on more than I want.

I only skimmed over some of the comments, but I think it has not been mentioned that diesels have a higher torque - you will not get the same performance from and equivalent HP of gas outboards than you would from a diesel.

[Sand crab]

Yup, just mix up a small batch of the old epoxy and pour it on some scrap and see what happens. Typically it will only set up to a tacky state. Be aware of the mix ratios because epoxy can be 1-1 to 5-1 ratios.
And I should add that while diesels are torquey the high thrust outboards are pretty torquey too. The manufacturers are now making higher horsepower high thrust models in addition to the 9.9 which is what I had. And the weight is still relatively low.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

And I should add that while diesels are torquey the high thrust outboards are pretty torquey too. The manufacturers are now making higher horsepower high thrust models in addition to the 9.9 which is what I had. And the weight is still relatively low.

True, although gas engines are inherently lighter than diesels anyway. But solid construction is a plus in a marine environment imo, and a turbo diesel will increase power to weight ratio.

[andreas.mehlin]

Wishing u good luck with the project

....but it's easy to be a time optimist. I know from experience

Our 3 months trimaran project...turned out to be 3 years....

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by andreas.mehlin

Our 3 months trimaran project...turned out to be 3 years....

Hehe... Sounds about right
Although we chose to cruise while continuing the refit, at least I'm doing work in interesting places

[barnakiel]

Most boat projects tend to last fewer than 10 years though.


Some people will go full in and have it done in say 3 years, sure.


As long as one likes the dust and the smell of solvents, why bother with such minor issues as the question of time.


One needs to be aware that once completed, the boat is all yours, it is a perfect fit for your personality and project style!!!


So that whoever buys her of you, will again have the same opportunity to make her, in turn, his ...


Time is not relevant, having fun building and rebuilding ad infinity is.



;-)
b.

[DreamBig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4yRjmt3Dzc

New video, this time with the whole crew... Have fun, work hard, play harder.. :-)

[catsketcher]

The diesel/outboard thing has been done to death but considering you are pretty new I will give you my two cents.

In have had our 38ft 4000kg cat for 20 years since I built her and we have lived on her for about 4 years of that 20. For most of that time she had a single 25hp outboard. I certainly thought about diesel when building but am very glad I went with the outboard.

The 25 Yammie four stroke outboard has a big prop and good reduction ratio. It just trucks along and has been very reliable. It has skipped a beat once when I was dragging and we dropped it and started it and then gave it almost full throttle (I didn't like to do this but we were dragging) and it then lost revs a little after one minute but that is the only thing it has done other than cut out from bad fuel one day (don't tip the dregs of a fuel drum into the tank!). We motored almost all of the 210 mile trip across Bass Strait (which can be a nasty place - that is why we motored it in a calm) Our boat takes about 18 litres to do 30 miles which is a bit thirstier than a diesel. Some of that is due to the prop size as larger props are more efficient but the Yammie prop is the biggest you will find on an outboard.

Outboard on cats are pretty easy to do. Some have wells in the aft lockers (Schionnings) some in hull blisters and chamfer panels (Orams) and mine has them mounted (I now have twin motors - but not because I wanted more power) in rotating mounts.

Getting an outboard to work well in your setup will be tricky. A well could be the easiest way to do it but you almost certainly don't want to put them far out in the wing deck - close into the main hull and about 1/4 to 1/3 in front of the transom on one side should be the best place.

I would modify something like Jim Brown's Scrimshaw nacelle. Watch all four of his videos and then read his books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDF0v68xLZs

My advice would be to use a Yammie 25 or other high thrust outboard (Honda with high pitched prop or others). You can't use the boat's outboard for the dinghy. Some rare designs have this as a feature but I could never countenance this. It means that if your kids take off in the dinghy, you can't motor the tri, or if you are ashore and the boat starts dragging the crew still on board can't save the boat. The small dinghy outboard does a very different job and needs to have a different reduction ratio and be very light compared to the mother ship's engine. Outboards can be great cruising boat motors but you can't use a portable version and expect it to do a good or even reasonable job.

The quickest installation would probably be to re-use whatever is there. Was the boat a diesel at first?

cheers

Phil

[MicHughV]

Whenever I hear the outboard vs. diesel argument, I never hear about the carrying gasoline vs. carrying diesel fuel issue. This trivial little item is often overlooked until there is a fire.

Your little 5 gallon outboard fuel tank is not going to get you far before it needs to be re-filled...at night..in the rain....coming thru' an inlet...etc....

'jes sayin'.....

[catsketcher]

Gday all

I understand the worry about petrol/gasoline in monos but it is not a such a concern in multis. I can carry up to 200 litres of fuel - all in drums or the small 20 litre fuel tanks. 160 litres is 7 drums. I like drums as I can put them in different areas, stern lockers, or anchor locker (mine is near the mast). I can out them in the dinghy to get fuel so that I don't have to bring the boat into tight fuel docks. Most of the time I only carry about 80 litres max.

As for fire concerns I have far fewer than most diesel powered monos out there. These days diesel monos almost always have petrol powered dinghies and they carry a couple of tanks of fuel for the outboard. In a mono it is hard to make a vented tank, in a multi it is very easy. And the motor itself is vented in a nacelle to the sea, you can't get any petrol vapours into the bilge on my boat, or into any locker that has an electrical wire into it (apart from the anchor locker which has a pretty big drain on the bottom).

Your typical mono does not have these vented lockers available throughout the boat in the wing or bridgedeck so you need to be far more careful with your motor choice. But multi owners can use an abundance of drained or vented lockers above the water to make their petrol powered boat a fair bit safer than the mono diesel guy next to them with 20 litres of outboard fuel and gas cooking. My gas line leads into the galley from under the bridgedeck directly under the stove (with a drain). You can safely use propane gas and petrol/gasoline in a multi much more easily than in a mono so the same sensible monohull rules don't apply. I for one am even wary starting up a petrol ski boat without a blower and would veer towards diesel if I had a mono.

But ensure that there is no possible way the fuel fumes can travel from a locker to the hull's bilge. This is absolutely vital. So no petrol engine inside and no fuel stored inside the hull. My two engines seem to break this rule (as they can be accessed from the hulls) but they both have 300 mm high dams at the front of the mounts to stop any fumes from coming inside the hulls. And they have huge space at the back to allow fumes to go away as well as plywood doors to shut them from the accommodation. The attached pic shows the mount rotated down so that motor is ready for use.

As for range - 20 litres gets us about 30 miles at 7 knots in a calm so as long as you keep your tanks half full you are always fine for a couple of hours motoring.

cheers

Phil

[Dymaxion]

Wondering how much time you're going to allow for drying out prior to repairs and re-glassing? Friends having their '60s wooden monohull totally glass encapsulated took a year of indoor unheated storage before the job began. Yes, different construction method from your boat, but damp wood is damp wood, rot never sleeps. You mentioned rapping on the ply to check condition. The different orientations of the layers of ply mean that water infusion extent depends where leak is feeding into the ply. Get a small awl and push it in firmly for rot tests. Had places on my boat where the outer ply layer and tabbing was decent, interior layers had rotted and chain plates were migrating. Cross spec'd ply for his dual diagonal, said in a letter getting back to me on that question that western red cedar wasn't worth the extra cost.

[DreamBig]

Okay, a couple of things here, Ameris has a 2002 Johnson long shaft 15hp mounted astern with 4 blade high pitch prop. Previous owner had complained about hobby horsing, and we plan to move motor towards C/G. I have a large engine room in cockpit sole, that had an engine it it at one time. The cutlass bearing hole has been glassed over, but the strut is still in place. and the drive shaft and prop are still with boat. Not sure if shaft is straight or not. Prop is not feathering, which I would probably opt for if I put a diesel in.

Now, Just how my mind works.. Like Phil says, I have ample spots on the wings aft of mid ship that I can put stowage for 20 gallon tanks. One each side gives me 40 gallons if I want it, plus 4 jerry cans, give me 60 gallons of tank-age. I am with Phil large wide multi's don't fit well in tight spots, so I plan, fill and convey fuel, by means of dinghy for most part, Not to mention, fast flowing fuel, static electricity can be a problem, also.

Like Phil stated, most cruisers have at least 10 Gallons onboard anyway. Not to mention most Americans drive around with 20 gallons of it at around 80mph daily. Venting the tanks and water is the main problem I see, as water in fuel is much harder to dispatch than water in diesel. Water to fuel separator should work, but I don't know.

This is a test run for us, maybe we like it, maybe we don't. I want things safe. I don't even want propane on the boat, really. Thinking induction cook top, lots of solar, and wind. Conversely, converting those engines to propane or natural gas is not hard at all either. Natural gas would be the safest, but find CNG in the islands might be tough, and having a detachable CNG tank or transfer station onboard adds a bunch of weight.

I was thinking two 9.9hp, as the 14' porta bote is rated for 89lbs of motor and that puts me really close, one of those motors would be mounted without intentions of removal. the other would have been double duty. It was brought to my attention that the 15 and 9.9 were the same motor just different aspirations. So, thus the weight is nearly the same.. I will say this plan is fluid and still changing. Two 15's works, also. This would give me 30hp of thrust, which is 10 more than is spec'd on the plans. I like the control of having dual power inputs, ability to save fuel by cutting one off, and I like the redundancy of a back up motor. All of which I will not have with a diesel. Plus, I already have a 15hp motor on the boat.

Either way I go, There will be a certain amount of installation that will have to be dealt with, so I wouldn't consider that a determining factor. Resell is a consideration, but not really, we will probably sell this boat very affordably for someone else to continue their dream cruise. There is the possibility of selling outboards off in the islands for a premium and then installing a diesel before we sell, also.

We are starting with a 5 month window, (One cruising season) that might end at anytime if we don't like it. If we can make the boat safe and affordable it's all the easier to walk away in the end, if need be.

I have wells on either side of cockpit already at the black marks