Broken Lagoon

[Muaddib1116]

Facebook is trash for a number of reasons, but not for a private group's posts being private. That has nothing to do with Zuckerberg's greed, it is how the group settings were setup when it was made.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by owly

Perhaps I'm the only one here who is Facebook Hostile.... but I suspect there are others. Unfortunately content on FB is not available except to members. Most other groups on the internet (like CF & others) are open to the extent that outsiders can read the content...but not participate, Facebook does everything they can to maintain a walled garden. I would encourage sharing relevant content where it can be viewed by anybody. It would be a good thing if discussion groups like the one mentioned would open up a group on Groups.IO, or even a sub forum here as a rebellion against Zuckerberg's greed based policies.
I personally found Facebook intolerable in a number of ways, and cancelled my membership quite a few years ago deeming the negatives to far outweigh the positives.....Your mileage may vary. I'm obviously out of step with the majority... but I always have been.

if private enough its okay. but only one group i know is really private. Else is just rubbish.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by owly

Perhaps I'm the only one here who is Facebook Hostile.... but I suspect there are others. Unfortunately content on FB is not available except to members. Most other groups on the internet (like CF & others) are open to the extent that outsiders can read the content...but not participate, Facebook does everything they can to maintain a walled garden. I would encourage sharing relevant content where it can be viewed by anybody. It would be a good thing if discussion groups like the one mentioned would open up a group on Groups.IO, or even a sub forum here as a rebellion against Zuckerberg's greed based policies.
I personally found Facebook intolerable in a number of ways, and cancelled my membership quite a few years ago deeming the negatives to far outweigh the positives.....Your mileage may vary. I'm obviously out of step with the majority... but I always have been.

There is a lot going on. In FB, on YT...

Most is bashing and outrage of non-owners, but there are also some serious cases with deformed or broken bulkheads and hidden cracks / separations of the deck structures from the hulls.

AFAIK Lagoon is working on a solution with their dealer network. Not sure what it will be, they announced some support for the inspection, repairs and fixes to the factory standards (on Lagoon's expense) and optional support for upgrades and structural re-enforcements (on customer's expense).
Negotiations are ongoing, nothing finalized.

[Saleen411]

I watched some of Colin's videos yesterday.....holy crap!

The scale of the damage is ridiculous. I can't imagine most owners being able to tackle such a project on their own....much respect for Colin.

One thing that surprised me was the tension on the spreaders....3000KGs? Does that sound right?

Best of luck to all the Lagoon owners who have to deal with this serious issue.

[owly]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Facebook is trash for a number of reasons, but not for a private group's posts being private. That has nothing to do with Zuckerberg's greed, it is how the group settings were setup when it was made.

NO FACEBOOK GROUPS ARE READABLE BY NON FACEBOOK MEMBERS. That is a facebook setup, not a group setting.



It is unfortunate that a predatory company like Facebook has become the defacto social networking standard. The desire to keep in touch between friends and family a natural human desire, and they have leveraged and expanded on that to the max..... Free enterprise is OK, but there need to be alternatives to Facebook, as they verge on being abusive in their exploitation of this. Being a member and participating in what they offer is totally optional, but there is HUGE peer pressure to join. There is a sort of addiction that results it would seem. I see people everywhere flipping through on their phones to see the latest garbage posted by their Facebook"friends". In the brief time I was on the forum many years ago, I set ever security setting to the max...... I was there for only one purpose, an attempt to locate a long lost friend who as it turned out was dead. They would constantly make changes and reset my settings to the least secure every time, at first notifying me of changes by Email, then announcing that I would only be notified on the forum....... at which point I quit. They imposed a 90 day "cooling off period".. It took 90 days to actually delete my account. They also routinely sent me notices of activity that were blatantly false if I didn't log on frequently enough to satisfy them......... Now the big hoopola about tracking..... Imagine them tracking you all over the internet to compile a profile for advertisers, and being angry at Apple for giving you the option to shut this off! You can on some browsers install a "container" to prevent Facebook from accessing anything on your computer. I was pretty irate when I discovered that they were harvesting my Email address book and telling me that this or that person was a member, and encouraging me to connect on FB with them. It is grotesquely intrusive. If I were ever to use Facebook again, I would set up a completely separate computer just for that, and not use it for browsing or Email.

[Sheriffdep]

Originally Posted by owly

NO FACEBOOK GROUPS ARE READABLE BY NON FACEBOOK MEMBERS. That is a facebook setup, not a group setting.



It is unfortunate that a predatory company like Facebook has become the defacto social networking standard. The desire to keep in touch between friends and family a natural human desire, and they have leveraged and expanded on that to the max..... Free enterprise is OK, but there need to be alternatives to Facebook, as they verge on being abusive in their exploitation of this. Being a member and participating in what they offer is totally optional, but there is HUGE peer pressure to join. There is a sort of addiction that results it would seem. I see people everywhere flipping through on their phones to see the latest garbage posted by their Facebook"friends". In the brief time I was on the forum many years ago, I set ever security setting to the max...... I was there for only one purpose, an attempt to locate a long lost friend who as it turned out was dead. They would constantly make changes and reset my settings to the least secure every time, at first notifying me of changes by Email, then announcing that I would only be notified on the forum....... at which point I quit. They imposed a 90 day "cooling off period".. It took 90 days to actually delete my account. They also routinely sent me notices of activity that were blatantly false if I didn't log on frequently enough to satisfy them......... Now the big hoopola about tracking..... Imagine them tracking you all over the internet to compile a profile for advertisers, and being angry at Apple for giving you the option to shut this off! You can on some browsers install a "container" to prevent Facebook from accessing anything on your computer. I was pretty irate when I discovered that they were harvesting my Email address book and telling me that this or that person was a member, and encouraging me to connect on FB with them. It is grotesquely intrusive. If I were ever to use Facebook again, I would set up a completely separate computer just for that, and not use it for browsing or Email.

Your wish will happen!!!!! However, i cannot tell you when. All of the mainstream social media/marketplaces will eventually change into something else. Facebook has a finite time. All it takes is something new to come out that the younger generation gravitates too, then business do, then the rest of casual users do. Until then, Facebook is it. I for one have never had an account. But business wise its possibly going to force me to have one. Facebook requires a regular user account to create a business account. Havent found a way around it yet. Due to my job i cannot have an account personally. Might make one for my dog though. Amazon is finite also along with Ebay. But not likely for 20 years though. Too large and too inplace.


Lagoon --- Except for boat values across ALL of their models, it is quite possible they attempt to take care of current owners. Likely will be a battle of what you have is fine vs yours needs a patch vs bulkhead replacement. MOst likely no one will feel happy unless the full replacement happens. (ie...new wood glassing etc... in those areas, not the full width). Colin is the trialblazer and possibly will have a bit of good will from Lagoon out of this, or its is what it is and the hurricane damaged boat will prevent any help except verbally.

Eventually the Lagoon market will suffer most likely no matter what. All models to a degree. Even people on this forum immediately said they would buy albeit a substantial discount. So in time everyone will see what happens.

[CatNewBee]

It is a big issue, but to be fair - all of them are still floating, none disintegrated on the ocean and no casualties yet.

It is a lot of effort to detect the weak points and fix them.

What is really bad with all producttion boats is, they are built in prewired lego bricks: hull, interior, deck structures and slapped together with some glue and screws. Easy and fast to produce, but impossible to survey and service after market. Many parts are inaccessible and when removing furniture it is impossible to replace it, because simply the access openings are too small to fit through. Another point is the excessive use of cable ties for wiring and plumbing, that keeps the modules clean and organized before putting them in the hulls, but makes them inaccessible and non-replaceable once the modules are glued in place. Very few and very small service openings.

So once you reinforce the bulkheads and rebuilt the interior smart, you may end up with a better boat, with better access to the structure and installation, easier removable panels and smarter installation.

[Sandy Frank]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

It is a big issue, but to be fair - all of them are still floating, none disintegrated on the ocean and no casualties yet.

It is a lot of effort to detect the weak points and fix them.

What is really bad with all producttion boats is, they are built in prewired lego bricks: hull, interior, deck structures and slapped together with some glue and screws. Easy and fast to produce, but impossible to survey and service after market. Many parts are inaccessible and when removing furniture it is impossible to replace it, because simply the access openings are too small to fit through. Another point is the excessive use of cable ties for wiring and plumbing, that keeps the modules clean and organized before putting them in the hulls, but makes them inaccessible and non-replaceable once the modules are glued in place. Very few and very small service openings.

So once you reinforce the bulkheads and rebuilt the interior smart, you may end up with a better boat, with better access to the structure and installation, easier removable panels and smarter installation.

I gotta say it seems that pretty much all of the beneteau group boats use a lot of glue to hold the modules together rather than proper tabbing.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Sandy Frank

I gotta say it seems that pretty much all of the beneteau group boats use a lot of glue to hold the modules together rather than proper tabbing.

From a friend of mine who is a naval architect, gluing bulkheads is pretty much standard on most production boats in the last decade or two…
I like that everything in my hull: benches, seats, bulkheads, etc are firmly tabbed into my hull

[more]

why i baying nautitech 40 not Lagoon 40 ( price is almost some couple $ expensive Lagoon 40) but if convert boat price per kg nautitech is expensive 30% be further volume space lagoon 40 is biger not from nautitech 40 better comparison be nautitech 46

but always but.
Nautitech use foam lagoon balsa, nautitech use foam vinyl ester bulkheads lagoon use some sort of super cheap general use plywood what chinese use for making packing box.
https://youtu.be/lxE_12rDhDg?t=132
normally my wish be outremer ,Balance cat ,swis cat but price is over my budget. Also i don't have big budget for that reason i must bay new cat and wait . i don't understand lagoon polity why don't make in the factory from foam sandwich bulkheads.

[owly]

Originally Posted by malbert73

From a friend of mine who is a naval architect, gluing bulkheads is pretty much standard on most production boats in the last decade or two…
I like that everything in my hull: benches, seats, bulkheads, etc are firmly tabbed into my hull

Translation: Sloppy half assed low quality construction is pretty much standard in the last decade of two.......

[Catamoron]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Is that the one where the front windows pop out of the frames?

This is my video I posted on YouTube (Bulkheads and Cross-supports on a Leopard 44) - someone posted it here (didn't know until I was looking at the traffic details of this episode and some was coming from CruisersForum) but I haven't heard about the windows popping out of the frames on the Leopards.

All the windows on the L44 are bedded in with a whole lot of Sikaflex 295 UV which is a pretty widely used technique and if bedded with the correct thickness, you shouldn't have a problem ever.

But I have heard of some of the newer L40's that have been getting cracks in the front windows and the particular owner that was replacing his windows while I was at FKG said they suspect it was from using too little bedding while it was being built - and even though they were the second owner, Leopard was paying for the front window replacements.

[Catamoron]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk

Thanks for sharing my video here....it seems to be getting a decent reaction.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by Catamoron

This is my video I posted on YouTube (Bulkheads and Cross-supports on a Leopard 44) - someone posted it here (didn't know until I was looking at the traffic details of this episode and some was coming from CruisersForum) but I haven't heard about the windows popping out of the frames on the Leopards.

All the windows on the L44 are bedded in with a whole lot of Sikaflex 295 UV which is a pretty widely used technique and if bedded with the correct thickness, you shouldn't have a problem ever.

But I have heard of some of the newer L40's that have been getting cracks in the front windows and the particular owner that was replacing his windows while I was at FKG said they suspect it was from using too little bedding while it was being built - and even though they were the second owner, Leopard was paying for the front window replacements.

I chartered a newer Leopard 40 in St Lucia with a HUGE crack in the starboard front window. As you know these windows are really big and I was wondering with all the flexing the yacht does, how more of these windows aren't cracked.

[PaulBartomioli]

As they say, "This **** is getting real."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXEphnVN3zM