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goboatingnow · 12-07-2021, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snerf1

And so we come full circle to discover what previous generations of builders already knew

It's a universal constant that each generation thinks it's experiences are unique

But if we were to speak to a shipwright 150 years ago, what would he advise?

Same old, same old. So why do we stray? Why is the ocean unchanging, uncaring - we know the potential hazards, risk, and danger.

and yet the shiny new thing, completely unseaworthy, attracts buyers ignoring the gods of copybook heading

And the Corp sharks who know full well their targeted audiences no different than marks in a con game

Why do we stray.

Simples. Every one wants more for less money

Something has to give

Otherwise please pay 1 million for the perfect 45 foot catamaran.

CatNewBee · 12-07-2021, 13:59

There will be some opportunities for a bargain for unfixed boats for sure, but at the moment the prices are still up on yachtworld, the demand is still high.

Anyway, if a used 450S is listed for 600k or more, maybe then really selling for 500k and you get an unfixed for 400k, invest 60k in a fix, you are still better off. 60k looks like a lot of money, but compared to the overal value of the boats it is still very attractive for skilled buyers or businesses, that buy, fix and resell. They do it with hurricane wrecks all the time.

It is a maybe 2..3 week job on the hard for a specialized team, and you pay the wages plus make 80k in a month if you fix and flip 2 boats.

If you DIY, you probably can fix it for under 20k with haul out and marina fees in most cheap labor countries by hiring some guys to help you, they cost 50...100$ per day and not per hour.

lateral · 12-07-2021, 14:34

Not a big deal unless you're down in both skill and money.
For the later, grow a pair and upskill.

Not that it should let the manufacturer off the hook for crap QC.

more · 12-07-2021, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Anyway, if a used 450S is listed for 600k or more, maybe then really selling for 500k and you get an unfixed for 400k, invest 60k in a fix, you are still better off. 60k looks like a lot of money, but compared to the overal value of the boats it is still very attractive for skilled buyers or businesses, that buy, fix and resell. They do it with hurricane wrecks all the time.

what you talking 550-600k is new Lagoon 46

rabbi · 12-07-2021, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilyum

Seth said this about Lagoons, if he felt his 380 didn’t fit into this category of construction quality, he would of mentioned it.

“Hull Construction, durability: While all fiberglass boats can become victims of delamination and osmosis, there have been an inordinate number of reports of Lagoons with hull construction and bulkhead separation issues. We've personally met several ex-Lagoon owner's that bought brand new boats, only to have so many issues with them they traded them in for something else. If you are going to buy a Lagoon (new or used!), please ensure that your surveyor thoroughly checks for these issues. Although not specific to just Lagoon, it is terrible to see these issues appearing in many of today's "production" cats and new cat buyers should be aware.”

No mention that he didnt have these issues with his 380.

Strange logic: I have met many men who lost their hair. Does that make me a baldhead?

He has not mentioned he did have such issues. At the time he wrote that quoted blog entry the boat was already sold so no reason to keep such secret.
Overall rating for the 380 was he'd buy one again for a similar trip.

I have been onboard maybe 20-25 Lagoon 380, and none had bulkhead warping. This would be immediately visible because you actually see most of the bulkhead structure.

smj · 12-07-2021, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbi

Strange logic: I have met many men who lost their hair. Does that make me a baldhead?

He has not mentioned he did have such issues. At the time he wrote that quoted blog entry the boat was already sold so no reason to keep such secret.
Overall rating for the 380 was he'd buy one again for a similar trip.

I have been onboard maybe 20-25 Lagoon 380, and none had bulkhead warping. This would be immediately visible because you actually see most of the bulkhead structure.

Maybe he didn’t have issues with his 380, but it sure is a bold statement that seems to involve all models?

nextis12 · 12-07-2021, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayiii

I've been told but I don't have any expertise, that the models with the mast moved aft have the main support under the compression post and that it's metal and part of the bridge deck structure. The other bulkhead is the engine bulkhead nearer the shrouds.

I was told that all the doorways are glued to the hull and mainly provide structural support for furniture and cabinetry.

I was also told by a shipyard, that I shouldn't have them fiberglass the "bulkheads" that are glued because it could lead to the panels cracking or hull damage since they need to flex.

This was in a 42 that I wanted to make stronger similar to what Cat Impi did on their 440. We've sailed full-time on this boat and have 18,000 NM on her so far and we haven't experienced any structural issues and yes, I climb around everywhere and look with a boroscope as well.

Crayiii what year is the 42?

Muaddib1116 · 12-07-2021, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by more

what you talking 550-600k is new Lagoon 46

Really? Where?

CatNewBee · 12-07-2021, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by more

what you talking 550-600k is new Lagoon 46

list price... Without options, delivery, tax maybe.

Muaddib1116 · 12-07-2021, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

There will be some opportunities for a bargain for unfixed boats for sure, but at the moment the prices are still up on yachtworld, the demand is still high.

Anyway, if a used 450S is listed for 600k or more, maybe then really selling for 500k and you get an unfixed for 400k, invest 60k in a fix, you are still better off. 60k looks like a lot of money, but compared to the overal value of the boats it is still very attractive for skilled buyers or businesses, that buy, fix and resell. They do it with hurricane wrecks all the time.

It is a maybe 2..3 week job on the hard for a specialized team, and you pay the wages plus make 80k in a month if you fix and flip 2 boats.

If you DIY, you probably can fix it for under 20k with haul out and marina fees in most cheap labor countries by hiring some guys to help you, they cost 50...100$ per day and not per hour.

Of the 120 Lagoon 450's on yachtworld, less than half are listed above 500k, and only 12 are listed above 600k. About 20 are listed below 400k. I don't know if your 600k was an average at some point recently, if so, it would seem that the market is softening. I don't have experience getting boat work done in cheap labor countries, but your repair estimates seem very optimistic, both in cost and in time.

Muaddib1116 · 12-07-2021, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

list price... Without options, delivery, tax maybe.

Right, so in reality probably more like 850-1M.

more · 12-07-2021, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

list price... Without options, delivery, tax maybe.

Lagoon newer delivery yacht,you must pay 5-10000€ to to delivery couple km to sea. some options basic eletronic. But we know also this price is 20-30% overprice because of high demand. Best price possible negotiate July 1/2 august