Broken Lagoon

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

I got a quote for a 3 cabin 450 S on 8 June 2021.

Included all of my wish list.

Total ex factory was €612 000 or roughly $734 000.

It would be ready to cruise.

Broker suggested adding on the comfort pack. Add € 26000.

My 2 cents.

Someone posted on this thread or another one recently that a Seawind 1370 (or any Seawind) would cost significantly more than a Lagoon. The base price for a 45' SW1370 is $699.000 US dollars so it's not too far off.


Aq what was the base price on the 450S?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Someone posted on this thread or another one recently that a Seawind 1370 (or any Seawind) would cost significantly more than a Lagoon. The base price for a 45' SW1370 is $699.000 US dollars so it's not too far off.


Aq what was the base price on the 450S?

https://www.lagoon-catamaran.de/file...50S_2022_A.pdf

Current Pricelist with all factory options for the SportTop (450S)

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Agree, it is not a separation issue of the bulkhead from the hull. The thin plywood rim around the door simply is overwhelmed by the pressure of the twisting structure and brakes at the weakest points. This needs re-enforcements and bonding.

It is not only Lagoons fault, customers demand a standing height and big square comfortable doors, so the bulkhead rims get smaller and smaller with each remake.

The other failures are a result of the broken main bulkhead as they take over the forces from the broken one, they then may separate from the hull (glue fail) because the material does not give in that easily. It is always the weakest link, that brakes.

Regarding deck to hull bonding - this is simply a design issue, that the applied glue does not touch the other surface, maybe an production issue of not propery alligned hull and deck. before the bonding both structures are quite flexible given their shape and size. The deck makes out of them a sturdy box.

Sorry but you really can’t blame the customer for problems arising from their need for larger doorways. Lagoon has the right to either deny their request or engineer a solution, that’s their job.
The bulkhead cutout for the doorways on the 450 are ridiculous. So little meat left in the bulkhead as well as 90 degree cut corners instead of a radius, it doesn’t take an engineer to realize that is a bad design.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by smj

Sorry but you really can’t blame the customer for problems arising from their need for larger doorways. Lagoon has the right to either deny their request or engineer a solution, that’s their job.
The bulkhead cutout for the doorways on the 450 are ridiculous. So little meat left in the bulkhead as well as 90 degree cut corners instead of a radius, it doesn’t take an engineer to realize that is a bad design.

Agree, but the Admirals like them. And without WAF (wife acceptance factor), no boat.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Agree, but the Admirals like them. And without WAF (wife acceptance factor), no boat.

Pick a new Admiral - thinking a boat is just a floating house is ridiculous but of course that is the lifestyle for some.

I’m so thankful my wife wanted, enjoys, and loves our sailing boat that was designed and engineered for sailing first (and acknowledging that the larger new generation designs seem to have some issues similar to the 450).

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by smj

Sorry but you really can’t blame the customer for problems arising from their need for larger doorways. Lagoon has the right to either deny their request or engineer a solution, that’s their job.
The bulkhead cutout for the doorways on the 450 are ridiculous. So little meat left in the bulkhead as well as 90 degree cut corners instead of a radius, it doesn’t take an engineer to realize that is a bad design.

The solution is a better hull shape, design and construction.

As I keep repeating, how is it that Crowther, schionning, pescott, Tennant etc etc can design cats that have bulkheads stay intact and doorways big enough?

From what I have seen in the pictures, what Lagoon call bulkheads anyone else with half a clue calls packing crates.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Agree, but the some Admirals like them. And without WAF (wife acceptance factor), no boat.

FIXED

[owly]

Originally Posted by crayiii

You're a jerk. What a dick thing to say.

I'd call that being realistic.......... some people are just mismatched.... It's OK for the rest of us to think it, but he's a "jerk" for saying it??





"Pick a new Admiral - thinking a boat is just a floating house is ridiculous but of course that is the lifestyle for some.

I’m so thankful my wife wanted, enjoys, and loves our sailing boat that was designed and engineered for sailing first (and acknowledging that the larger new generation designs seem to have some issues similar to the 450)."

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Someone posted on this thread or another one recently that a Seawind 1370 (or any Seawind) would cost significantly more than a Lagoon. The base price for a 45' SW1370 is $699.000 US dollars so it's not too far off.


Aq what was the base price on the 450S?

That’s not really a fair comparison. You cannot compare a fully spec’d yacht to a base price. I am pretty sure you can add an extra $200-$250k on to that base price to get a cruise ready yacht.

Base for Lagoon 450s was € 426 000 or $502 000

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Pick a new Admiral - thinking a boat is just a floating house is ridiculous but of course that is the lifestyle for some.

I’m so thankful my wife wanted, enjoys, and loves our sailing boat that was designed and engineered for sailing first (and acknowledging that the larger new generation designs seem to have some issues similar to the 450).

Who are you referring to as Admirals?

[crayiii]

What other current boats/models are designed by the same naval architect? I wonder if those designs should be looked at closely as well.

[OliveJuice]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Who are you referring to as Admirals?

It's a passive-aggressive term used by old sailors to refer to their wives. It's part of a schtick where the man blames the wife for whatever problem he's facing.

It's frankly insulting and misogynistic to refer to someone's wife as an admiral instead of an equal partner in which both parties should be responsible for their choices (boat or otherwise).

[nextis12]

Admiral is a boat owners wife.

The rest of the post, sUggesting, or thinking, that someone should end a relationship because of a choice of boat is moronic, at best.

[Snerf1]

Originally Posted by crayiii

What other current boats/models are designed by the same naval architect? I wonder if those designs should be looked at closely as well.

Good point. Now, as Holmes famously said, the game is afoot.

If you want a mind blow, take a moment to browse through YW. The volume of Ben, Jen and Goon dominating any search profile is staggering.

Since it seems the market has already reacted to the first order effect, the next quest will be to uncover related design or build processes.

The roll through has just started. Any builder even remotely associated will be tainted.

While these discussion threads are great and talk of lawsuits are fine, the damage has already been done. The easiest thing to do is NOT spend discretionary money.

No protests, no angry demands, just a thousand quiet soundless exits from the market.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by OliveJuice

It's a passive-aggressive term used by old sailors to refer to their wives. It's part of a schtick where the man blames the wife for whatever problem he's facing.

It's frankly insulting and misogynistic to refer to someone's wife as an admiral instead of an equal partner in which both parties should be responsible for their choices (boat or otherwise).

As I thought, just wanted to be sure.

Buying a yacht is a joint decision, especially if you plan to cruise or spend a lot of time on it. It’s most often A large financial outlay as well, so again, it needs to be a joint decision. I cannot imagine anyone in a healthy relationship doing it any other way.

Then there’s the old saying....

“HAPPY WIFE HAPPY LIFE”

Besides, it’s a very expensive exercise changing the Admiral!! No way I am downgrading to a monohull!