Broken Lagoon

[owly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I also have about 150 photos of a 450 where outer hull skin varied in thickness from 2mm to about 3/8".

In this infrared, the white areas are less than 2mm thick and moisture levels in the glass are in the very high range. . This was a boat just delivered to Canada on it's own bottom. They could not figure out where the water was coming from so I was hored to find out. Turns out is was leaching right through the very thin glass around the sail drives (an uncored area).

PS. I drilled holes and used a hooked screwdriver and black tape to measure thickness.

These poor quality construction feature/quality/engineering issues are not unique to Beneteau built cats. I've seen them in Bene monohulls,Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria and Hanse. I found a 4'X2' area in the bottom of a new Hanse (that had never been in the water) that I could flex the bottom over an inch with my hand pressure. The broker/dealer told me fiberglass is supposed to be flexible !

This is horrifying!! 2mm thickness is NOTHING. .078 inches!!! Of course the issue is hired help and quality control. These things however flow down from the top..."Sh_t runs downhill" as they say, so it all reflects poor leadership, and a lack of commitment to quality control. Having had employees myself, I can speak with some authority that you cannot let your guard down. It is up to YOU to make sure they produce quality work. Lagoon obviously lacks this top down control....... all it takes is ONE weak link. In a business structure with multiple levels, each level MUST monitor the level below aggressively at all times to make sure they are actually doing their job. That is NOT happening at Group Beneteau or Lagoon........"heads need to roll". If you are not doing your job... which in many cases means making sure the guy below you is doing his job, you do not deserve to hold that job. Good execs keep a finger on the pulse at every level below them, but what they actually do, they do through the established channels. When this structure breaks down, you are headed for rocks and shoals... for chaos. This is what apparently happened at Lagoon. It is time to clean house from top to bottom!

[Sandy Frank]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I also have about 150 photos of a 450 where outer hull skin varied in thickness from 2mm to about 3/8".

In this infrared, the white areas are less than 2mm thick and moisture levels in the glass are in the very high range. . This was a boat just delivered to Canada on it's own bottom. They could not figure out where the water was coming from so I was hored to find out. Turns out is was leaching right through the very thin glass around the sail drives (an uncored area).

PS. I drilled holes and used a hooked screwdriver and black tape to measure thickness.

These poor quality construction feature/quality/engineering issues are not unique to Beneteau built cats. I've seen them in Bene monohulls,Jeanneau, Dufour, Bavaria and Hanse. I found a 4'X2' area in the bottom of a new Hanse (that had never been in the water) that I could flex the bottom over an inch with my hand pressure. The broker/dealer told me fiberglass is supposed to be flexible !

That is incredible. I was extremely relieved when I replaced the ball valves with seacocks on my *gasp* hunter that the hull was never less than 3/4" thick.

I always figured Beneteau was the upgrade in production boats.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

They could not figure out where the water was coming from so I was hored to find out.

People are seldom so forthright about their profession

[smj]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

People are seldom so forthright about their profession

Now that was funny![emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

People are seldom so forthright about their profession

oops slip of the finger but I do somewhat agree about the profession in genersl

[SV WELDER]

Wait, aren’t these hulls laid up dry with cloth and resin injection? If so, how can there be any spots too thin, unless a whole area was not laid in according to design? Or did they go back to using a chopper gun on these?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by SV WELDER

Wait, aren’t these hulls laid up dry with cloth and resin injection? If so, how can there be any spots too thin, unless a whole area was not laid in according to design? Or did they go back to using a chopper gun on these?

They ain't the only ones. How about this Regal powerboat bottom with 3 sq' with no glass at all.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by SV WELDER

Wait, aren’t these hulls laid up dry with cloth and resin injection? If so, how can there be any spots too thin, unless a whole area was not laid in according to design? Or did they go back to using a chopper gun on these?

Resin injection is expensive. These hulls are likely laid up with sheets of cloth, buckets of resin and rollers.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Resin injection is expensive. These hulls are likely laid up with sheets of cloth, buckets of resin and rollers.

I can't find my photos but do a liitle online research on the two Bertram resin infused boats that came apart on their delivery cruise, One of them sank when the entire bow delaminated. The other one made it with sheets of glass hanging off the topsides

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I can't find my photos but do a liitle online research on the two Bertram resin infused boats that came apart on their delivery cruise, One of them sank when the entire bow delaminated. The other one made it with sheets of glass hanging off the topsides

I’ve seen the latter……those were infused?!? Wow!

[jmh2002]

And yet people (and insurance companies) have concerns about home built glass over ply construction being of poor quality...

I agree they can have their own issues too, but the thinking of 'let's buy a well known fibreglass production boat to avoid issues' isn't necessarily the panacea that it should be.

[smj]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

And yet people (and insurance companies) have concerns about home built glass over ply construction being of poor quality...

I agree they can have their own issues too, but the thinking of 'let's buy a well known fibreglass production boat to avoid issues' isn't necessarily the panacea that it should be.

Well known fiberglass production boat......that be the polyester resin with the balsa wood cored vessel?

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by smj

Well known fiberglass production boat......that be the polyester resin with the balsa wood cored vessel?

Yes

[owly]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

And yet people (and insurance companies) have concerns about home built glass over ply construction being of poor quality...

I agree they can have their own issues too, but the thinking of 'let's buy a well known fibreglass production boat to avoid issues' isn't necessarily the panacea that it should be.

The men who decide coverage policies are only human, and their policies are often NOT based on reality, but on their own prejudices. The classic example and one of my pet peeves is tire shops that steadfastly refuse to lubricate the threads on the studs when they install tires because their insurance company will not allow them to.... really??? Do they think if you oil the threads the nuts will come off and the tire fall off??? Idiots!! You can't get proper torque if you install them dry. I have to take the lugs off and lubricate the threads after I leave. There are ignorant ******** in every profession!