Broken Lagoon

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Wow, 7 knots.
Is that what you call sailing hard?

7 kn passage averages is excellent for 40 footer in my books.

We do plan 3 capes but i need to do some extra work on boat for that.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

7 kn passage averages is excellent for 40 footer in my books.

Sure, but it's not sailing hard

Plenty of fast cat cruisers sail pretty much pedal to the metal so to speak all the time
All bulkheads intact.
But they are well designed and built properly

Some use marine ply drum bulkheads with timber truss and beams internal and 8:1 scarfs minimum.
Others use duflex or foam sandwich bulkheads with massive unidirectional ringframes around the perimeter and all cutouts
Others use strip plank panels with localised unidirectional following load paths.
All supported by surrounding furniture
ALL are epoxy coved into the hull and furniture and fiberglassed in for additional strength.
Some even leave this workmanship exposed for all to admire.

None of them are made from what would seem to be packing crates held in with snot and then hidden behind a timber moulding.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

None of them are made from what would seem to be packing crates held in with snot and then hidden behind a timber moulding.

sorry, above i do not get. english my 4th language.

i have no experience with boat building, and from all I have seen when yoga-ing thru boat looks to me pretty solid. Confirmation is there is no sign of give-up. No retensioning rigging required after 30k nm so that suggest to me engineering is adequate.

All bulkheads are glassed. More important ones have some stuff between bulkhead and hull - and then glassed over.

Main bulkhead is not entirely glassed - outside hull on both sides there is a patch of some green-ish glue only. On both sides. I doubt this is done to save cost as it is really small bit and easy accessible ahen no furniture. Bulkhead is glued on top from one side only + greenish stuff. My take was this is to keep boat more flexible and not cause structural fiberglass cracks in storm.

[smj]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I don't agree, in every bigger bay we meet Lagoons afloat in all ages, they seem not to disintegrate, I doubt any owner has done structural repairs on them yet. There would be a lot of fatal accidents if the structure is so poor, but they cross oceans in all conditions and survive.

There may be some boats with issues, that need to be addressed, but even 10 boats out of 1000 built are only 1%, and they would not even had noticed it without the hype. They still sail and float.

I believe Lagoon admits to 40 of the 450’s have reported this problem out of about 500, so far a 8% failure ratio.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by smj

Go to the Lagoon 450 f/s bulkhead issue Facebook page to view plenty of the 450’with this problem that haven’t encountered a hurricane.

I'm not on FB. What are the model years of the affected boats? Someone posted that they were only 2011 and 2012.
Thanks

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I'm not on FB. What are the model years of the affected boats? Someone posted that they were only 2011 and 2012.
Thanks

From what I’ve seen on FB the newest model with slight distortion of the bulkheads is a 2017. Seems to get worse with age? And supposedly insurance companies are getting wind of this and are considering a no navigation clause. Some of the pictures are amazing.
Came across this on another forum and it’s supposed to be Lagoons reaction.

“To share with you a global view and understanding of the situation, we would like to remind you that since 2011, more than a thousand Lagoon 450 have been sailing all over the world, and that a large number among these are extensively sailing, many in successful charter use.
To date, around 40 cases of damaged forward bulkheads have been reported, mostly by owners directly. However, we would like to point out that a large number of boats inspected present no problems with their bulkheads, knowing that many of these boats have a history of intense sailing in all types of sea condition
....
Among the cases identified, we have discovered localized buckling or shearing on the outer side of the forward bulkhead (non-structural zones with respect to mast support). According to the Finite Element calculations (FEA) performed by our Design Office and analyzed in collaboration with the VPLP team of naval architects, we confirm that the scantling is sufficient under normal use of the boat.
The area is located in a stress concentration zone, designed to withstand normal stress, which could however create an imbalance if the boat was to be used in a manner that does not comply with the recommendations for use, as described in our User Manuals.”

[olaf hart]

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk

[cyan]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk

Thanks very much for posting this Leopard 44 video.
This production catamaran appears to be built quite differently!

[Muaddib1116]

There are 143 listings for Lagoon 450's on yachtworld. I don't know if this is the normal amount of these that are up for sale at any given time, but it seems possible that people are trying to get out of them before problems develop or the issue becomes more widely known.

[CatNewBee]

Great time for buying...

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

There are 143 listings for Lagoon 450's on yachtworld. I don't know if this is the normal amount of these that are up for sale at any given time, but it seems possible that people are trying to get out of them before problems develop or the issue becomes more widely known.

Probably too late now. Unless prospective buyers do no internet research…

Really unfortunate for current owners. Yes the market has set a price point and size expectation for these McMansion yachts- which relies on cost cutting measures. But, doubling the size of the bulkhead or something similar, as well as adding tabbing, to be strong enough would probably have added less than $3000 to each boat if done during the build so this is inexcusable…

[Muaddib1116]

Some of what is being revealed by Colin on Parlay is pretty incredible. Most of it is clearly not from the hurricane damage. You can tell that it is that way from the factory. The newest reveal of the encapsulated resin injection tube that caused huge voids under the tabbing is just sloppy and inexcusable. In most cases it seems like the bulkheads would have been strong enough, but the tabbing is so minimal and shoddily done.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by cyan

Thanks very much for posting this Leopard 44 video.
This production catamaran appears to be built quite differently!

Is that the one where the front windows pop out of the frames?

[rabbi]

Both the 400 and the 450 have design flaws that lead to structural failure of bulkheads.
This is a fact that even Lagoon acknowledges but some fanboys seem to think that bulkheads are optional.

Are Lagoons trash? No! But they are not perfect, and some just have issues that need to be addressed - not ignored.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Both the 400 and the 450 have design flaws that lead to structural failure of bulkheads.
This is a fact that even Lagoon acknowledges but some fanboys seem to think that bulkheads are optional.

Are Lagoons trash? No! But they are not perfect, and some just have issues that need to be addressed - not ignored.

AS we both know Lagoons excel at providing optimal value for combination of $, comfort and performance. I would say L 400 is really the pinnacle of that.

Lagoon 400 design issue lead to bulkhead damage if not caught early enough and fixed - make critical area dry. If caught early there is no damage to speak of.