Build or buy

[Catbuyer]

Originally Posted by monte

Yes 44, my comment was a bit simplistic, and of course comfort is relative to the sailors perspective. For many it's a good sea motion and speed and ease of single or short handing, for others it's having air conditioning, washing machines, lots of storage with cupboard doors, large 'kitchen', generators and all the comforts of home. Obviously the lighter the boat, the better the performance. Also narrower lighter hulls will equate
The OP might want to take a look at Thor while he's in Thailand to get a feel of the shionnings.
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-fo...=0&pss=Premium

Hi monte


Just to clarify the 5x hulls where big enough but when we went on board the 51 the hulls became to narrow for my husband and we are aware that when we are alone on board we will not be going at high speeds this is only when we will be racing with her for conformt we will have a washing machine in board but only 2 toilet and capacity to sleep 8 people with a double bed in front with drop down bunk beds for 2 more and a 3 cabin version for air conditioner we are not sure about it this is something we need to figure out during our training catamaran time as we stated we don't expect to get our new cat before 2017 ... So those options we can choose on a later stage ....



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[Doe818]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

High teens to lower twenties is cursing speed. Have you looked at Tag Yachts?

Meh..... Gforce 18 left a tag 60 for dead in a race in qld a couple of months ago, with an alloy rig to boot.... Tags are massively overated in my book, lots of others out there who's main marketing pic isn't of the boat's leeward hull doing its best impression of the nautilus ...

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by monte

........... I was chatting to an outremer 50 owner yesterday who just crossed the Atlantic. On departure he asked his crew if they wanted a fast or comfortable crossing and the 2 crew voted comfortable, so they crossed under jib alone and averaged around 160M days..........

That's the point of a "fast" boat though. You can do acceptable cruising speeds like that with very little effort. A more "comfortable" boat would require more sail area and thus sailing effort to do similar mileages.

It's because of the heavy "comfortable" boats that people think anything around 50 feet might be too much boat to handle.

But it's really more about the weight. Heavier means more sail area. For instance, Bob Oram has a 62 foot design that is (from memory) designed to displace around 10-12 tonnes. Quite a few 40 - 45 footers weigh that much.

The 62 footer will be a far more comfortable boat at sea and at anchor, and sailing effort will be similar at similar speeds, although the 62 will obviously have much more speed available if you want it.


If it were my $3 million, I'd drag Bob out of retirement and get him to design something for me. Failing that, yeah, something like a G-Force...

[tuffr2]

Watching video of the Open 60 boats. That is fast !!! But I would be sure to bring a lot of clean underware.

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[Sea Frog]

Originally Posted by Steamer

-disagree
-disagree

Above is based on personal experience, sorry.

Could you tell a bit more? While I don't have any personal experience with actually living on Privs, I have sailed them, and talked to quite a few owners. None of them expressed any kind of dissatisfaction. On contrary everybody stressed how much safe and comfortable the boat was. But I would very much to hear the first-hand experience - it may help others to prevent potential issues.

[Doe818]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

That's the point of a "fast" boat though. You can do acceptable cruising speeds like that with very little effort. A more "comfortable" boat would require more sail area and thus sailing effort to do similar mileages.

It's because of the heavy "comfortable" boats that people think anything around 50 feet might be too much boat to handle.

But it's really more about the weight. Heavier means more sail area. For instance, Bob Oram has a 62 foot design that is (from memory) designed to displace around 10-12 tonnes. Quite a few 40 - 45 footers weigh that much.

The 62 footer will be a far more comfortable boat at sea and at anchor, and sailing effort will be similar at similar speeds, although the 62 will obviously have much more speed available if you want it.


If it were my $3 million, I'd drag Bob out of retirement and get him to design something for me. Failing that, yeah, something like a G-Force...

What he said

[Catbuyer]

Originally Posted by Doe818

What he said

And who is Bob sorry for my lack of knowledge

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[tp12]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

If it were my $3 million, I'd drag Bob out of retirement and get him to design something for me. Failing that, yeah, something like a G-Force...

Would you look at Tony Grainger's designs? He has a few 54 and 60 foot designs. How do you think they'd stack up to a G-Force 1800 ?

How would you compare your boat to a barefoot 45 for example?

[44'cruisingcat]

The barefoot 45 is a really nice boat. Compared to mine, it's much bigger volume, much greater displacement, 8685kg, vs my 5700kg. (we cruise at around 6 tonnes though)


18.5 metre mast, vs my 16m, 122 m3 sail area vs my 90.


With "my" $3million I'd be looking at a very long, but light and lean, easily driven boat.


Bob Oram has become a friend over the years. If I was building a 3 million dollar boat, (dream on...) I'd ask him if he wanted to design it.


If not, I'd certainly look at Grainger and Schionning, and others.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

The barefoot 45 is a really nice boat. Compared to mine, it's much bigger volume, much greater displacement, 8685kg, vs my 5700kg. (we cruise at around 6 tonnes though)


18.5 metre mast, vs my 16m, 122 m3 sail area vs my 90.


With "my" $3million I'd be looking at a very long, but light and lean, easily driven boat.


Bob Oram has become a friend over the years. If I was building a 3 million dollar boat, (dream on...) I'd ask him if he wanted to design it.


If not, I'd certainly look at Grainger and Schionning, and others.

The more I hear about Bob's boats the more I'm annoyed he's gone and retired! Ah well ..

Thanks for the comparison, sounds to me like the G-Force 1800 could be a good fit for your $3m boat ... it also sounds like you're as likely to have one as I am We can but dream...

[Snowgoose35]

Take a look at the Broadblue Rapier 550; fast, comfortable, I'm pretty sure they'd customise many features for you and as it comes well within budget at 1.7M euro. It can also be sailed single handed with incredible systems like wind pressure sensors on the sails tied in to reversing electric winches to reef automatically and a node based electrical and electronic system that has multiple redundant back ups. The only down point to me is the unorthodox car like helm position inside. Incredible boat though.

[Factor]

Ouremer 5X for sure. With all the options, still well under budget

[Catbuyer]

Originally Posted by Snowgoose35

Take a look at the Broadblue Rapier 550; fast, comfortable, I'm pretty sure they'd customise many features for you and as it comes well within budget at 1.7M euro. It can also be sailed single handed with incredible systems like wind pressure sensors on the sails tied in to reversing electric winches to reef automatically and a node based electrical and electronic system that has multiple redundant back ups. The only down point to me is the unorthodox car like helm position inside. Incredible boat though.

Snowgoose35

We did look at it but we don't like the helm position we will pass on it

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[zeehag]

building vs buying.... lemme see...
having been on each end of this, the build having been a kit boat partially factory finish, 1991, into which i poured over 60,000 usd to have achieved nothing more in 3 years than a hull and deck, completed, altho without encapsulated keel, one mast, one boom, and a much needed divorce. was my second attempt at my own cruising boat.
i found this formosa 41 on the mooring next to me, was able to, over 2 yr span, survey it myself, assess value of it in condition presented, observed her changes, and eventually bought it for 4650, in an essential boat trade. took less than 2 years to fix for travel, as opposed to the multiyear construction.
many i have watched fail in this lifestyle began with a plan. they progressed into the lets build a boat phase.
everyone goes thru it.
when you figure a self build, always add minimum of four times the parts pricing, add minimum of 4 times materials costs, and make sure you have 20 years set aside fro this effort. and then it gets logarithmic without rationale.....
with a paid assistant, i have seen the procedure take as little as 5 years.
know a designer of boats.
befriend a constructor of boats.
spend time in boat yards in which folks are creating something of nothing, which is what building a boat actually is.
i had the idea that is a new boat was xxxxxxx usd, a kit would be less expensive.
kill that idea.
before i contracted for a new construct with the builder in 1991, i also considered finishing a hull i found that needed everything else done.. was a ct48 1978, hull only, in a dry yard in wilmington, cali.....dont do that, either. is a hella lotta work.
finding a derelict beauty and restoring it---omygods yes i did that first. dont do it unless you enjoy living in your repairs....or have alternative housing for the duration.
this is also a prime reason behind fail in htis lifestyle.
and do NOT bring a female into this situation, as you, too, shall become deevorsed.....and i am the female of these misadventures....lol
you state a 3 year plan.... buy new.
nothing else is able to meet the immediacy of your need.
unless you know bob perry or any other designer willing to get er done for ye.

[Catbuyer]

Originally Posted by zeehag

building vs buying.... lemme see...
having been on each end of this, the build having been a kit boat partially factory finish, 1991, into which i poured over 60,000 usd to have achieved nothing more in 3 years than a hull and deck, completed, altho without encapsulated keel, one mast, one boom, and a much needed divorce. was my second attempt at my own cruising boat.
i found this formosa 41 on the mooring next to me, was able to, over 2 yr span, survey it myself, assess value of it in condition presented, observed her changes, and eventually bought it for 4650, in an essential boat trade. took less than 2 years to fix for travel, as opposed to the multiyear construction.
many i have watched fail in this lifestyle began with a plan. they progressed into the lets build a boat phase.
everyone goes thru it.
when you figure a self build, always add minimum of four times the parts pricing, add minimum of 4 times materials costs, and make sure you have 20 years set aside fro this effort. and then it gets logarithmic without rationale.....
with a paid assistant, i have seen the procedure take as little as 5 years.
know a designer of boats.
befriend a constructor of boats.
spend time in boat yards in which folks are creating something of nothing, which is what building a boat actually is.
i had the idea that is a new boat was xxxxxxx usd, a kit would be less expensive.
kill that idea.
before i contracted for a new construct with the builder in 1991, i also considered finishing a hull i found that needed everything else done.. was a ct48 1978, hull only, in a dry yard in wilmington, cali.....dont do that, either. is a hella lotta work.
finding a derelict beauty and restoring it---omygods yes i did that first. dont do it unless you enjoy living in your repairs....or have alternative housing for the duration.
this is also a prime reason behind fail in htis lifestyle.
and do NOT bring a female into this situation, as you, too, shall become deevorsed.....and i am the female of these misadventures....lol
you state a 3 year plan.... buy new.
nothing else is able to meet the immediacy of your need.
unless you know bob perry or any other designer willing to get er done for ye.

Well when I mean build my self it was more in the area getting a design made and have a naval engineer make the drawings and then hire a boat builder to make the boat and have 2 survey guys check out the construction independently to make sure all went according to plan ... My mind not my head is build to be a builder


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