Buying Catamaran from Sunsail (TUI Marine)

[MikeFergie]

Guys Tui sold sunsail and Moorings about 2 years ago. It’s now owned by a venture Capital company.


The TUI Group said it has an agreement to sell U.K.-based travel operator Travelopia, parent of Sunsail and The Moorings. The TUI Group said it has an agreement to sell U.K.-based travel operator Travelopia, parent of Sunsail and The Moorings, to the U.S. private equity firm KKR & Co. for $403.7 million. - July 2017

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by MikeFergie

Guys Tui sold sunsail and Moorings about 2 years ago. It’s now owned by a venture Capital company.


The TUI Group said it has an agreement to sell U.K.-based travel operator Travelopia, parent of Sunsail and The Moorings. The TUI Group said it has an agreement to sell U.K.-based travel operator Travelopia, parent of Sunsail and The Moorings, to the U.S. private equity firm KKR & Co. for $403.7 million. - July 2017

That's far far worse then. The PE model is to load up on debt, take as much equity out as fast as you can, and plan on defaulting on that debt if things turn south. And things have most definitely turned south for them!

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by fly2kite

Thanks, we want to buy it for personal use only - We hope the Meds will open up a bit in the summer months and then do the ARC.

According to the latest email from the marina at PortNapoleon we can sail now, with a permit and 54nm radius

[skipperpete]

Now if I can only somehow get back to France[emoji848]

[Alistair242]

As a rule I would not purchase a boat coming out of one of the major charter companies fleets at any time, let alone now, and I worked for one of them for near 20 years.

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by Alistair242

As a rule I would not purchase a boat coming out of one of the major charter companies fleets at any time, let alone now, and I worked for one of them for near 20 years.

May I ask as to why you wouldn't? It seems a lot of folks around the globe are doing that. From my very short experience of the boat market, It is very difficult to find a Lagoon/Leopard boat that wasn't in Charter or hurricane-damaged.

[skipperpete]

From my personal experience with charter boats, for me the stumbling block is the level of maintenance on the machinery. Many things get fixed just to get the boat out for a charter... and then another charter, and another ....and most charter companies are dis inclined to do proper expensive repairs, they do the speediest cheapest repairs and often the shabby work goes un noticed, like the saildrive lower shaft in the photo. It had a history of salt water in the saildrives and welding was the cheapest local repair but it failed.... the actual owner of the managed boat never knew what the charter company had done until the drives failed.

[valhalla360]

Given the current situation, having the deposit in an independent escrow is perfectly reasonable.

If they aren't willing to bend on such a simple rule that has no risk to them, I would be very concerned that they are trying to pull something.

[Alistair242]

Originally Posted by fly2kite

May I ask as to why you wouldn't? It seems a lot of folks around the globe are doing that. From my very short experience of the boat market, It is very difficult to find a Lagoon/Leopard boat that wasn't in Charter or hurricane-damaged.

Yes, many of those particular makes come from charter. Maintenance can be an issue, more specifically consistent level and/or standard of maintenance over a 4/5 year contract where these boats are worked very hard, often by bareboat guests who do not treat them well or are unable to do so. When they come out of this contract the wear and tear is similar to a private boat that is twice that age, often worse. Phase outs are focused more on cosmetics as opposed to rebuilding integral systems on the boat that most likely need serious attention at that point. You can get lucky with a boat coming from a base where they have minimal weeks and an excellent maintenance program, but these would be few and far between.
I know that many people do buy boats out of charter fleets and are happy with them but I just would not consider doing so.

[Stewie12]

In Europe there are no escrow facilities for buying yachts, or anything else for that matter.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by fly2kite

Of course - we will follow the guidelines strictly - We are currently residing in Europe btw. and it seems that starting June 15th some countries with low numbers are already starting to loosen the restrictions for travel and tourism e.g. Croatia, Slovenia. However, the reason why we are looking in purchasing this boat right now is the lower demand and we hope for a good deal ;-). So any advice on the OP is highly appreciated especially is somebody has purchased from them before. As far as I know Sunsail and Moorings are basically the same.

If you are dead set on getting started checkout boats available in Greece. Apparently, Greece is a country that has managed COVID-19 well. Plus they are apparently encouraging tourism this summer. Greece offers an excellent cruising ground, so you could do a lot of sailing without leaving Greece. All the above is just from reading on the internet so do the research.

The above being said I would wait to buy a boat until there is either an effective treatment or vaccine and there was a lot more visibility about the economy and what the new normal will be to be a cruiser. Or the herd immunity has occurred naturally which I think for that to happen something like 80% of the planet has to have gotten the virus and once you get it you won't get it again(which is not certain). It is entirely possible there will never be an effective treatment or vaccine and getting the virus does not guarantee immunity or does not guarantee immunity, for example, for more than a year or two.

Maybe a long term charter from Greece would be a good way to go. But if it was me I would stay put and stay safe, not get on airplane, not pass through airports, not stay in a hotel or airbnb, etc. etc., until there is an effective treatment or vaccine. Everyone has their on outlook on what amount of risk they are willing to take. Good luck!

[DEAN2140]

Yes, the Moorings and Sunsail are owned by Travelopia, which is owned by KK&R, a leveraged buy out (LBO) firm. This means lots of debt and a company run for the benefit of its owners. Two LBO's, Nieman Marcus and J Crew just declared bankruptcy. Be very careful. https://www.mooringsyachtownership.c...art-travelopia

[fly2kite]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

In Europe there are no escrow facilities for buying yachts, or anything else for that matter.

Just to share my experience -- Escrows are indeed available in Europe - I purchased real estate in the US and in Europe and even though the setup and handling is slightly different - they are available and do the same thing. Usually, banks provide them in conjunction with a lawyer and an execution agreement.

[lvictorlucas]

This is asking to give your money away in normal times.
Boat prices will see a BIG drop in 6 months.
It is a long-shot the boat is as advertised.
You will be lucky to get several cents back on the dollar.
I don't understand why anyone anyone would consider it !

[Roshni]

Cruising Caribbean after Med and Atlantic trip. Recomend buying boat fitted out for cruising, watermaker, solar, gennaker etc, as cost of this is greater then discount of ex charter company.