Buying Catamaran from Sunsail (TUI Marine)

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

If I was selling my boat and you came to me with this deal, I'd send you back your check and contract, and tell you I was very happy you were a serious buyer, and if you wanted to pay to haul and survey the boat, I'd be happy to take your money once you were satisfied it was the boat you wanted.

But if you expect me to take my boat off the market for measly $1000 deposit--you are smoking dope. If you are lucky, the boat will still be available when you are ready to buy, or you could lose out to somebody with a check for 10% in hand and a contract that we agree on, and I wouldn't cry a drop for your lost haul and survey costs.

This is just a petty and silly way to approach boat buying. The standard contract used in the USA is not at all "one-sided" and basically makes the sale of the boat contingent on a "satisfactory" sea trial. They buyer gets to decide what is satisfactory, so your 10% really isn't even remotely at risk. Someone who needs to do things in a way totally contrary to normal business practice is just waving red flags, and is not someone I want to do business with. They will be way more trouble than they are worth.

Same if I was buying a boat. I expect to put 10% down, and expect that in return the buyer takes the boat off the market and ignores any competitive bids while we work out the final deal. When I was buying my current boat, we had reached a deal, I wired my 10% and then someone came along the next day with a significantly higher offer. But we had a contract, and the owner was honorable, and we closed as scheduled.

I think both sides of this exchange are missing the fact that in the US at least you can wire your funds to an escrow party so it's not at risk of the "seller" absconding with it which is what @capn_bill seems rightly concerned about. And you still get the serious commitment @SVHarmonie is looking for.
The problem the OP was facing is that they refused to allow a third party escrow and insist that they, a probably already technically insolvent company, hold it. This would make the buyer an unsecured creditor in bankruptcy who will likely get pennies back on the dollar for that deposit years from now. And that happens no matter how honorable or well intentions the seller is. Most of us who understand this risk agree that it's not one worth taking. Note that this risk didn't really exist as recently as six months ago, so any experience older than that is completely irrelevant to the valid concern that exists today.

[capn_billl]

That's your choice of course as a big seller.

I've bought several boats, and numerous houses, and I've never put up the "recommended" earnest money.

If a couple thousand isn't enough to convince you I'm a serious buyer, and hold the boat a few weeks while I inspect it, and raise the cash, you can wait for the next buyer.

On the big ticket items I've sold I've never held a buyer hostage.

In several cases after verifying funds, I didn't even cash the check until the option period expired.

As a seller it's zero risk. Worst case, I slowly accumulate back up buyers while waiting for the first one to make up his mind.

There may be a legitimate business case for wanting a $15,000-$30,000 deposit, but I've never seen it in several big ticket sales on both sides of the transaction.

Depending on the State getting the deposit back can be a hassle.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

There may be a legitimate business case for wanting a $15,000-$30,000 deposit, but I've never seen it in several big ticket sales on both sides of the transaction.

If I buy / sell I expect to pay / receive a deposit to hold the boat. Not 10% but say 5,000. That is enough compensation for the hassle of stockpiling backup buyers IMO

Never had problems with this in private deals. Only if brokers were involved. In cases with broker involvement the deposit often magically aligns with the broker's commission.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

This whole process is an overthinking in grandeur.

In real estate with a bigger turnover, both in terms of stock and potential buyers, it is a different game. Houses are sold many a time in 30 days. Paying deposits and getting time to arrange finances is the reality and both parties wishes both parties to be locked in.

Boats are different. Boats can be on the market for years, and on average I dare to say, longer than residential units - save for specific market slow down periods.

Merely because houses are assets of need, whilst in general boats are assets of greed.

If you are comfortable to pay a commision, then pays it.

In the most instances by far, you will find your boat still available by the end of you doing your due diligence period.

Copy and paste real estate principles directly on realities of vessel trading, is skewed.

Pay a deposit if you feel the need. Don't pay a deposit if you are uncomfortable with it.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

The requirement of Paying deposits by brokers in the boat industry, is a hamper more than a gain.

My powerboat is in the market with two brokers. One requires strictly a contract and deposits before further engagement. The other sends me the potential buyer's detail as it comes through and tequires no deposit.

The broker requiring contracts and deposits seem to attract more traffic and leads, but no commitments either, even after being 1 year in the market.

Maybe if I was in contact with any of the potential buyers I could have made a difference. I don't know. What I do know, for my boat, is that it made no difference if a deposit is required or not.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Originally Posted by MikeFergie

Yes it’s normal for sunsail and moorings to ask for the deposit which is 10% of the value and they put this into their escrow account. This blocks the boat from being sold to anyone else. You then do the survey and haul out if you wish ( which you pay for). If the survey ER finds things needing work they will fix them or discount the boat a bit for you. If the survey is good and you walk away from the deal then you lose your deposit.

That’s how it worked in 2015 when I bought my boat from them. Don’t let the prophets of doom here deter you if you like the boat and are set on it. Moorings sunsail are the biggest so safer than any of the others

Agree that 10% down payment is normal and is what I did with them in 2019. Also agree that Moorings / Sunsail are the biggest and least likely to go bankrupt. I sailed in Greece last September and it was crowded. I think the Med will continue to open up, and Moorings / Sunsail's business will just get stronger.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

Agree that 10% down payment is normal and is what I did with them in 2019. Also agree that Moorings / Sunsail are the biggest and least likely to go bankrupt. I sailed in Greece last September and it was crowded. I think the Med will continue to open up, and Moorings / Sunsail's business will just get stronger.

Dude it’s 2022. “ continue to open up “ its gang busters here this year

[goboatingnow]

Note in a stock YBDSA purchase and sale agreement , widely used in Europe. you have the unequivocal right to walk away after the survey or sea trial , irrespective of the outcome of either and your deposit will be returned.

[Sand crab]

Have you got a link to that sales agreement? All the ones I found are dead or questionable.

[Piscis]

As far as i know, that is a Europea consumer protection regulation/law. If a private person purchases any good from a commercial seller, certain rules apply. Even if stated otherwise in a sales contract, the EU rules... "rules".

John