Can you have Comfort, Value and Performance in a Catamaran?

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

It wasn't until I saw someone do an analysis on the numbers that I realised that it was probably true. Here's a rough calculation with a couple of assumptions:
- 1 liter per nautical mile (out boat was closer to 0.5l/mile)
- $1 USD per liter (this might be low now)
our $7000 code zero would have funded enough diesel for a lot of motoring, even if fuel was say 1/3 of the cost of running the engine.

Having said that, I don't really care as I like to sail!

Interesting! Based on our own data from last season, they end up pretty even steven. The depreciation cost is based on 5 yr life for the CZ and 20 yr life for the engine (including replacement costs). Also, marine diesel fuel is quite expensive here in Finland

Most of the time we go quicker with the CZ than by engine, so that affects the equation marginally as well.

Having said that, I don't really care either, as I dislike motoring and love to sail!

[arsenelupiga]

We have done around 2000 nm with carbon gennaker costing 7000 USD, instead of motoring.

Apart from keeping my wife (very) happy, savings were around 1 L per nm. Which is around 1 usd. So we saved 2000 USD. This enabled us to have only 1100 hours on engines after nearly 8 years, so engines can last us lifetime. Cost of motoring is not just fuel but replacement cost which is exceptionally high in Australia due to weird economic relationships going on here. So, good sailing is money saver and I will buy more HQ sails !!!

Thinking of large furling assymetric

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Interesting! Based on our own data from last season, they end up pretty even steven. The depreciation cost is based on 5 yr life for the CZ and 20 yr life for the engine (including replacement costs). Also, marine diesel fuel is quite expensive here in Finland

Most of the time we go quicker with the CZ than by engine, so that affects the equation marginally as well.

Having said that, I don't really care either, as I dislike motoring and love to sail!

Yes, I did some calcs a while ago. 70,000 NM at a $1 a NM motoring is less than $100,000 I have spent on sails and sail gear in 20 years and that doesn't take account of the fuel costs and maintenance for my engines that I have anyway.


Think about this standing rigging costs about $6000 if it is replaced ecery 10 years that equates to 600NM per year at $1 /NM in fuel.



No doubt about it a power cat is cheaper than performance sailing cat. A monohull is cheaper on sails and more costly on fuel. You pays your money and takes your choice.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Think about this standing rigging costs about $6000 if it is replaced ecery 10 years that equates to 600NM per year at $1 /NM in fuel.

No doubt about it a power cat is cheaper than performance sailing cat. A monohull is cheaper on sails and more costly on fuel. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Yes, true, the rig needs replacing as well. And taking that into account power will be significantly cheaper

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Like this perhaps? Isn't this how everyone cruises, at 10-13 knots upwind?

Nice, though to get that kind of performance you better have a good helmsman at all times who can ride between flying a hull like that and not capsizing

[CaptRehab]

Originally Posted by harlem24

A more spartan, less cruising boat then the Marsadons are hardly imaginable...

I see my friends at Neo Marine have a TS42 for sale in Martinique. I will have to check it out next month. It sure does look spartan. I am sure it will make my wife feel better about our boat.

[Boatguy30]

Got it in a nice Bohemian 34' package.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by tomfl

As a disclaimer my Seawind has 9.9 Yamahas so motoring for any real distance is simply a no go.

Tom, my Seawind 1000 had the same motors. In 2016, we were returning to Texas from Bahamas and were met with a glassy, no-wind Gulf of Mexico crossing. We motored non-stop from Ft Myers, Florida to Grand Isle, Louisiana. Didnt have enough fuel capacity to operate both motors for the distance, so ran only one. Speed 4 knots. It was very relaxing, fishing, listening to music, making water. Every afternoon we encountered thunderstorms whereby we raised the sails, cut the motors, and sailed like h*ll until it passed, then back to motoring. At Grand Isle we went in tomfill the gas tanks, motored back out to the Gulf, raised sails, and never ran another motor until we got to Galveston, Texas. Great wind, sometimes reefed.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Mr B

But I could have done what you do, Anchor in 200 feet of water, Grab a taxi and go home and come back for the boat when the wind died down,

,

I don't know where you came up with this rubbish..

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

If you spend most of your time sailing in those conditions, I'd suggest you spend some time learning to read weather forecasts.

.

Its as stupid as this comment, This is rubbish too,

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Its as stupid as this comment, This is rubbish too,

You were saying you can't put your coffee down in your boat, apparently because you're always sailing in extreme conditions.

I suggested if that's the case you might pay a bit more attention to the weather forecasts.

Seems like good advice to me.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You were saying you can't put your coffee down in your boat, apparently because you're always sailing in extreme conditions.

I suggested if that's the case you might pay a bit more attention to the weather forecasts.

Seems like good advice to me.

That was a once off,
I got caught out in a very bad and violent storm,
It was a full on washing machine,


Storms dont bother me, Normally my boat is level and flat, No matter what the weather and waves are doing,
And in daylight, I can see the wave direction and sail accordingly,
And I can put my coffee cup down and it will stay where I put it,

But this time, Every thing was on the floor, It was also at night and I couldnt see anything outside,

It was a tongue in cheek statement, Humour even, I think you missed that,

I did say the weather forecast was for 3 days of light winds,
So I dont know where you get watching the weather report better was going to improve my situation,

But I was well into Bass Straight when the weather forecast was changed to a Mariners Warning of winds in excess of 35 knots,
And I did cop it,

Bass Straight is not the place to be in any kind of bad weather,
Its bloody dangerous out there,

If I had the Mariners Warning 4 hours previously,
I would have been safely at anchor in Port Phillip Bay and wouldnt have been in the storm,

[44'cruisingcat]

Ok, so actually you agree, you really can put your coffee down most of the time.

I'm not sure what the point of your other post was then.

[Simi 60]

[QUOTE=mark_morwood;3079609]

Originally Posted by tomfl

It wasn't until I saw someone do an analysis on the numbers that I realised that it was probably true. Here's a rough calculation with a couple of assumptions:
- 1 liter per nautical mile (out boat was closer to 0.5l/mile)
- $1 USD per liter (this might be low now)

Even on a vessel our size it works out well , we use 2L/nm @ 7.5kn shifting a 70 tonne 3 bedroom house around.

Add in the vastly increased load carrying ability and comfort levels and that was all it took to sway the financier.
The fact that larger powered vessels are often considerably more affordable to buy also helped.

our $7000 code zero would have funded enough diesel for a lot of motoring,

Enough to get us from Brisbane Australia to Indonesia
Once there and beyond fuel prices are then 50% of here.

even if fuel was say 1/3 of the cost of running the engine.

Not sure where that number comes from, maybe small "Hand Grenade" engines.
In 4 years of running our engine has only used consumables, oil, filters, impellers etc. several hundreds of dollars at the most.
In frame rebuild is often 30,000 hours for our engine
At current rate of use it only has 75 years of life left.

Having said that, I don't really care as I like to sail!

As do I
But the financier demanded an increased level of comfort and autonomy if living aboard without the need for a marina.
Have to say, after 4 years out here and not getting any younger I tend to agree.

[44'cruisingcat]

We have "consumed " $15000 worth of sails to do 45000 miles. A DIY re-rig, when due, should cost around $5000.