Cat buying causing domestic strife!

[Renx]

My wife and I have been locked into the classic mono vs cat ‘discussion’ for the last few months and need some help breaking our impasse because it’s getting messy!

We’re both experienced offshore sailors (and instructors) familiar with mono sailing and build reputation of mono manufacturers. However, with our sail away budget of £170k / $200k (+ monthly budget of £1400 / $1700) we are looking for a long distance, blue water family cruiser for us and our 3 kids of 5,7,10 years.. and toying with getting a Cat.

We’d love a Catana 41 but it’s just beyond our budget (unless the £pound pulls out of the doldrums!) so we reckon we could afford a 10 year old production Cat of around 40-45’ with most of the bells and whistles needed for blue water cruising. (Perhaps ex-charter that has been in private ownership for a few years - edging perhaps towards a Leopard 40)

We’ve done extensive reading and some limited sailing of Cats but not enough to answer the big questions.. see below. If you can keep it objective with QUALIFIED opinions and specific experiences and anecdotes with exact models it’d be much appreciated. Please consider our budget too!.....


Maintenance: Which models have a good reputation for build quality and simple maintenance?

To Wind: Which models point better and have least leeway - better sailing ability?

Heavy Weather: Apart from reefing early, how do sailing techniques differ from sailing a mono?

Overpowered: How does a cat handle in a sudden squall or when suddenly overpowered?

Stresses: Considering the last question, what happens to the rig / chainplates etc. when overpowered?

Anchoring: Outside the Carribean, does a Cat have any major advantages over a mono?

Weight: 3 kids with ‘stuff’ - how much weight do specific models take before performance is effected?

Engine / Rig / Hull: What are the issues and ‘warnings’ to watch out for when buying a 10yr old cat?

Trampolines and Bimini Hard Tops: A magnet for kids playing - Why no jackstays on cats?


Any PMs, links to boats for sale or family sailing vblogs etc., welcome.

Thanks in advance.. you might just save our voyage plans.. and possibly our marriage!

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Renx.

Good luck in your quest.

[boatman61]

Welcome to CF Renx..
This should be interesting to follow..

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Renx

Maintenance: Which models have a good reputation for build quality and simple maintenance?

To Wind: Which models point better and have least leeway - better sailing ability?

Heavy Weather: Apart from reefing early, how do sailing techniques differ from sailing a mono?

Overpowered: How does a cat handle in a sudden squall or when suddenly overpowered?

Stresses: Considering the last question, what happens to the rig / chainplates etc. when overpowered?

Anchoring: Outside the Carribean, does a Cat have any major advantages over a mono?

Weight: 3 kids with ‘stuff’ - how much weight do specific models take before performance is effected?

Engine / Rig / Hull: What are the issues and ‘warnings’ to watch out for when buying a 10yr old cat?

Trampolines and Bimini Hard Tops: A magnet for kids playing - Why no jackstays on cats?

------------------------------------------------
Maintenance: Which models have a good reputation for build quality and simple maintenance?
None-they all need maintenance on common parts that are not made by the boat manufacturer.

To Wind: Which models point better and have least leeway - better sailing ability? The Dagger board boats. But they are out of your budget.

Heavy Weather: Apart from reefing early, how do sailing techniques differ from sailing a mono? Cats are much nicer to sail in heavy weather. No Sails up at 50 knots, just bare poles

Overpowered: How does a cat handle in a sudden squall or when suddenly overpowered? Plan ahead and Reef early.

Stresses: Considering the last question, what happens to the rig / chainplates etc. when overpowered? Just as a mono, all rigging should be check periodically for stress cracks.

Anchoring: Outside the Caribbean, does a Cat have any major advantages over a mono? Yes, as most circumnavigators will tell you. You will be at anchor 99.9% of your journey. Why not enjoy those beautiful anchorages.

Weight: 3 kids with ‘stuff’ - how much weight do specific models take before performance is effected? 40 footer will be affected much more than a 45 footer. The bigger the cat the better.

Engine / Rig / Hull: What are the issues and ‘warnings’ to watch out for when buying a 10yr old cat? Engine hours and past maintenance records, Full Rigging inspection for suspect stressed parts. Any hull damage they may have wet the balsa core

Trampolines and Bimini Hard Tops: A magnet for kids playing - Why no jackstays on cats? Not sure what your asking on this one

Just an aside note on this issue. The Wife will usually win here, so do not fight it.
Happy Wife Happy Life.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Welcome to CF Renx..
This should be interesting to follow..

[Sailmonkey]

This has been a long time question of mine.

Cotemar, @ 50kts under bare poles. What choices do you have in regards to direction of travel? On my beach cat with the rotating wing mast in 30 kits of wind it can sort of go to weather. Does the same hold true for a large cat? I'm honestly asking.

[makana]

I may have the perfect cat for you, we are selling Makana our Admiral 38 after 11 years of living aboard with our now 14 year old daughter who now wants to live near a ski area and go to a regular school. Makana has everything need to safely cruise the world in comfort. The boat is listed in the classified here which details the equipment and condition. Please feel free to contact me with any questions, thanks.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

This has been a long time question of mine.

Cotemar, @ 50kts under bare poles. What choices do you have in regards to direction of travel? On my beach cat with the rotating wing mast in 30 kits of wind it can sort of go to weather. Does the same hold true for a large cat? I'm honestly asking.

Down wind.. unless it has a rotating wing mast..
Doubt you'd want to go to weather tho'.. its not a beach cat..

[amiller]

Originally Posted by Renx

My wife and I have been locked into the classic mono vs cat ‘discussion’ for the last few months and need some help breaking our impasse because it’s getting messy!

We went through this also. Just agree to settle for the cat now and move on.

We are a family of 4, daughters turning 6 and 8. We had a similar budget and bought a 2006 Leopard 40. Sure, it's an ex-charter boat but it's been privately owned for the last many years and has new rig, new sails, new engines and has a watermaker, solar, etc. All of this reflected good value for our budget. Sure a Catana would have been nice but...$$$

We had a lot of folks advise us to shop for an Owner's Version, but the 4 cabin layout provides us 4 cabins for 4 humans to escape to when needed.

As a general rule (very general) the older production cats are lighter and faster and sail better. The newer boats are generally bigger, heavier, slower....but more spacious. I made the mistake of letting my wife charter on a 2012 built "40 foot" cat, and when she saw the 2006 leopard 40 for the first time she felt that it was clearly smaller and "tighter". The upside of that she also feels that our boat is easier to sail and dock because of the lighter weight and feel.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Renx

My wife and I have been locked into the classic mono vs cat ‘discussion’ for the last few months and need some help breaking our impasse because it’s getting messy!

you might just save our voyage plans.. and possibly our marriage!

She is right.
No matter what, just buy the boat she wants.
In my 10th year cruising I have seen many, many, many relationships fail because HE bought the boat.
If you value your relationship all the bumpf in your post is meaningless:

Does it point? Who cares. If your wife doesn't like the boat she will go home.
Jackstays? Who cares. If your wife doesn't like the boat she will go home.

Remember this one point: If your wife doesn't like the boat she will go home.

Thus is not a facetious post. I firmly believe is the most important advice you will receive.


Mark
PS my next boat will be a cat.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

This has been a long time question of mine.

Cotemar, @ 50kts under bare poles. What choices do you have in regards to direction of travel? On my beach cat with the rotating wing mast in 30 kits of wind it can sort of go to weather. Does the same hold true for a large cat? I'm honestly asking.

You can go any direction you want. If its a short duration squall you may want to lay in place or drift down wind for comfort.

50 knots will slow the boat down considerably if going into wind and waves with engines running, so most will adjust there direction based on the comfort they want.
.
.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

You can go any direction you want. If its a short duration squall you may want to lay in place or drift down wind for comfort.

50 knots will slow the boat down considerably if going into wind and waves, so most will adjust there direction based on the comfort they want.
.
.

Yes true.. but under bare poles..?? Upwind..?? Beam reach..??.. iron genny for sure..

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yes true.. but under bare poles..?? Upwind..?? Beam reach..??.. iron genny for sure..

Isn't that what I said

50 knots will slow the boat down considerably if going into wind and waves with engines running, so most will adjust there direction based on the comfort they want.
.
.

[Renx]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

------------------------------------------------
Maintenance: Which models have a good reputation for build quality and simple maintenance?
None-they all need maintenance on common parts that are not made by the boat manufacturer.

Ok let me put in another way. Which models have a reputation for well made laid up hulls? When did they switch to vacuum bagging? - Which have decent engine access and headlining that comes away to get at deck fittings and backing plates?

To Wind: Which models point better and have least leeway - better sailing ability? The Dagger board boats. But they are out of your budget.

As I said, we'd love a Catana 41 but with that not being an option which of the 10 year old production cats (without daggers) are best at pointing. We tried a Lagoon 440 last year and although it pointed reasonably well the leeway was horrific.

Heavy Weather: Apart from reefing early, how do sailing techniques differ from sailing a mono? Cats are much nicer to sail in heavy weather. No Sails up at 50 knots, just bare poles

Can you define 'nicer'? I'd have thought a mono rides waves better without slamming and jumping, no?

Overpowered: How does a cat handle in a sudden squall or when suddenly overpowered? Plan ahead and Reef early.


It's very hard planning ahead for a sudden squall during a night passage - particularly short handed. So, for example, do they round up.. or do some models with rigs with sacrificial breaking point as I've heard, to prevent flipping?

Stresses: Considering the last question, what happens to the rig / chainplates etc. when overpowered? Just as a mono, all rigging should be check periodically for stress cracks.

But are cats particularly vulnerable in this area or do they have thicker standing rigging or bigger chain plates which need changing more often?

Anchoring: Outside the Caribbean, does a Cat have any major advantages over a mono? Yes, as most circumnavigators will tell you. You will be at anchor 99.9% of your journey. Why not enjoy those beautiful anchorages.

Many places in the med have few anchorages but lots of old small harbours that are ill equipped to take Cats. - we were both flotilla skippers in the med so know from first hand experience - not sure about the rest of the world though?

Weight: 3 kids with ‘stuff’ - how much weight do specific models take before performance is effected? 40 footer will be affected much more than a 45 footer. The bigger the cat the better.

For example - FPs are quite light so does that mean they're more weight sensitive than say.. a Leopard of equivalent length?

Engine / Rig / Hull: What are the issues and ‘warnings’ to watch out for when buying a 10yr old cat? Engine hours and past maintenance records, Full Rigging inspection for suspect stressed parts. Any hull damage they may have wet the balsa core

Anything particular with cats.. like looking for stress fractures in the bridge deck?

Trampolines and Bimini Hard Tops: A magnet for kids playing - Why no jackstays on cats? Not sure what your asking on this one

Just wondered if anyone with kids does anything to prevent kids bouncing over the wire when playing on the trampoline or rolling off the high roof.. apart from shouting yourself horse.

Just an aside note on this issue. The Wife will usually win here, so do not fight it.
Happy Wife Happy Life.

You're not wrong, but in this case it's the wife that wants to do the hardcore sailing in a mono - she's RNLI crew and a total thrill seeker - whereas I'm happy to watch the kids play on the trampoline from the hammock with a beer!

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Renx

You're not wrong, but in this case it's the wife that wants to do the hardcore sailing in a mono - she's RNLI crew and a total thrill seeker - whereas I'm happy to watch the kids play on the trampoline from the hammock with a beer!

Sorry, It will not happen again today !!!!