Cat Purchase- World Circumnavigation Trip

[Leighpilot]

Far be it from me to denigrate someone’s boat ,and I’m sure that the owners are happy with the choices they’ve made. But a new inexperienced buyer ought to know the compromises inherent in buying a boat like that. And they are big compromises.

The cockpit is a working cockpit , so not for sitting outside and enjoying the sunset and view. It’s not covered so all sail operations will have to be done in the weather , either ran or sun. So no lounging under the bimini enjoying the views over the tropical anchorage for the owner. Nope , they’ll be sitting in a wooden box or under the sun .

And dagger boards ? Sure it’s nice to go fast. But in cruising ( and I exaggerate only a little here ) 99% percent of the time a 30 ferrocement gaff sloop will be as fast as this boat. All boats are equally fast at anchor. I’ve got a 32ft Woods Eclipse and I do love my stub keels. They still let me cruise all day at 10kts , pushing 15 if the wind is over 20 knots . But where they really come into their own is shallow or no water. The boat draws 36” and when I’m exploring a shallow area I dont have to worry about damaging a delicate dagger board or its casing. And I can dry out between tides to clean the bottom.

So for my wife and I , that boat is a huge NO. Working sails exposed to the weather ? Nope ? Sitting under the bimini watching the sun go down ? Nope. Delicate , go fast dagger boards ? No thanks. Pass.

My view is keep it simple and keep it easy. A big boat sounds ( and looks ) great in a Marina. All that space , all those modern conveniences,it’s just like home. But when it’s just the two of you trying to deal with a 15 tonne 46ft cat in a stormy anchorage , tight marina or handle those huge sails in a blow , suddenly that easily handled 32ft 3 tonne boat seems awfully sensible.

[MicHughV]

No question that buying a new boat is nice, but it comes at a price.

Why not shop the used boat market. There must be 100's of available models to look at.

Plus, nothing beats some time spent on the water to see what you'd really like and what will work for you.

Used boats typically come with all the gear that you'd have to buy in addition to the new boat. Dinghies, solar panels, liferafts, etc, but to mention a few things. This can easily add several 1000's to your purchase.

At the end of the day, a Toyota will get you to your destination, just as reliably as would a Mercedes, but at half the price.

[TPG]

I searched for a used cat over a couple of years and could not make a purchase happen. When we found a boat that was worth having, it was scooped up before I could make an offer. Or, we found boats that were far overpriced and brokers/owners were unwilling to budge on the price.

In fact I know of one cat that we made an offer on (which needed a total refit) was bought by another buyer eventually for close to the asking price which was ridiculous.

I've been in an around boats my entire life and know what I'm looking at when I see a vessel. Over the last few years people's expectations have distanced from reality, and brokers have moved right along with them.

Finally after beating my head against a rock in my search for a good, used cat...I came to the realization that I should just build a boat and get the boat that I want. Not what I wanted to happen, but here we are.

Just remember, time is the one thing we never get back.

[amarinesurveyor]

I think many newer boaters don't realize what it takes to get a large sail down, when the furling gear for the head sail fails in a blow. I see people that are less than physically fit buying boats, that are way too big for their ability. Some of them luck out and don't have to deal with storm conditions, others aren't so lucky.

[Chrisatlantic]

Guess I better go right out and sell my Atlantic 55 cause it’s too much to handle, maybe buy me a Dana 24!

If your point is that people who don’t know what they’re doing should keep to smaller boats, then we can agree on that.

WRT the earlier comment about the forward cockpit, we have a very workable sun awning. The vast majority of the time the cockpit is comfortable and dry and it is always safe. As I’ve heard Chris’s White say, pretty hard to fall out of a cockpit that you wear up to your waist like a pair of trousers. And all sail controls come to the cockpit, nothing is more than a step from the helm. And when it is wet, cold or nasty we can retreat to the inside helm in the pilot house where we are very comfortable and from which we have excellent visibility. Only point of sail that is really not nice outside is windy upwind in steep seas (oh yes, these boats actually go to windward), in that case we pinch up 10 or 15 degrees with the autopilot and everything quiet down, sail adjustments made, back inside, bear off and go.

For the original poster, I think the most important thing to do is decide on priorities, whether sailing and adventuring is an important part of the equation, or whether the boat is just a moving home. Even then there are comfort, safety and expediency concerns that are well-built and well sailing boat addresses much better than the run of the mill charter cats do.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Chrisatlantic

Guess I better go right out and sell my Atlantic 55 cause it’s too much to handle, maybe buy me a Dana 24!

If your point is that people who don’t know what they’re doing should keep to smaller boats, then we can agree on that.

WRT the earlier comment about the forward cockpit, we have a very workable sun awning. The vast majority of the time the cockpit is comfortable and dry and it is always safe. As I’ve heard Chris’s White say, pretty hard to fall out of a cockpit that you wear up to your waist like a pair of trousers. And all sail controls come to the cockpit, nothing is more than a step from the helm. And when it is wet, cold or nasty we can retreat to the inside helm in the pilot house where we are very comfortable and from which we have excellent visibility. Only point of sail that is really not nice outside is windy upwind in steep seas (oh yes, these boats actually go to windward), in that case we pinch up 10 or 15 degrees with the autopilot and everything quiet down, sail adjustments made, back inside, bear off and go.

For the original poster, I think the most important thing to do is decide on priorities, whether sailing and adventuring is an important part of the equation, or whether the boat is just a moving home. Even then there are comfort, safety and expediency concerns that are well-built and well sailing boat addresses much better than the run of the mill charter cats do.

I’m with you on this one, the Chris White cats are the top of the food chain when it comes to fast, well constructed, and safe blue water cruisers. They do intimidate people though who are very conservative. There’s nothing wrong with that either, it’s good to have differing opinions out there for people to hear and then decide for themselves what type of sailor they are.

I do think it’s pretty silly that the OP is planning a circumnavigation but needs advice on what catamaran would be best. The odds of this dream happening is slim and none. Hell I’m building a boat right now and I’m not even presumptuous enough to say we will actually complete a circumnavigation one day. More people climb Mt Everest each year than sail around the world.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

I’m with you on this one, the Chris White cats are the top of the food chain when it comes to fast, well constructed, and safe blue water cruisers. They do intimidate people though who are very conservative. There’s nothing wrong with that either, it’s good to have differing opinions out there for people to hear and then decide for themselves what type of sailor they are.



I do think it’s pretty silly that the OP is planning a circumnavigation but needs advice on what catamaran would be best. The odds of this dream happening is slim and none. Hell I’m building a boat right now and I’m not even presumptuous enough to say we will actually complete a circumnavigation one day. More people climb Mt Everest each year than sail around the world.

I really like the CW cats, but there’s been a few that’ve capsized, so a good cat for the more experienced multihull sailer that treats them with respect?

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

No question that buying a new boat is nice, but it comes at a price.

Why not shop the used boat market. There must be 100's of available models to look at.

Plus, nothing beats some time spent on the water to see what you'd really like and what will work for you.

Used boats typically come with all the gear that you'd have to buy in addition to the new boat. Dinghies, solar panels, liferafts, etc, but to mention a few things. This can easily add several 1000's to your purchase.

At the end of the day, a Toyota will get you to your destination, just as reliably as would a Mercedes, but at half the price.

I have a Lexus full of Toyota parts--its a great dream car better than a Mercedes.

[Chrisatlantic]

To my knowledge, there have been two 57‘s that have flipped, one by a guy that, close as I can tell just wasn’t paying attention and another by a professional captain, with two crew doing a delivery that seems to of been hit by a microburst with no warning. Don’t know how to deal with that other than not go sailing. And these boats get sailed a lot, which is quite different from the typical cat which sits on the dock or a mooring quite a lot.

At least when you’re sailing, the main sheet and jib or genoa sheets are right at hand, which is also unlike many other boats where you have to leave the helm to get to the main sheet winch or maybe even the main sheet is a two-part A-frame affair where you have to release both sheets.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chrisatlantic

To my knowledge, there have been two 57‘s that have flipped, one by a guy that, close as I can tell just wasn’t paying attention and another by a professional captain, with two crew doing a delivery that seems to of been hit by a microburst with no warning. Don’t know how to deal with that other than not go sailing. And these boats get sailed a lot, which is quite different from the typical cat which sits on the dock or a mooring quite a lot.



At least when you’re sailing, the main sheet and jib or genoa sheets are right at hand, which is also unlike many other boats where you have to leave the helm to get to the main sheet winch or maybe even the main sheet is a two-part A-frame affair where you have to release both sheets.

Also an Atlantic 42 that capsized on the Great Lakes.
I like the Atlantics but couldn’t recommend one to a beginner.
I know the one 57 capsized while the captain and crew were preparing dinner inside. I wonder if someone was outside actively sailing, would have had time to release the sheets and prevent the capsize.