Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

[rgscpat]

Were there guns on board the catamaran and should there have been?
Did the crew flip because they relied on their GPS instead of a traditional sextant? Or did they get their paper charts wet? Or did the chartplotter fail?
Have we established whether it was a blue water or coastal catamaran?
Should the skipper have started on a smaller catamaran? Did they have the wrong antifouling paint? Were pirates involved? Would the boat not have capsized if Texas had mandatory boating licenses for the crew? If they had gotten certificates from a sailing school? Wait, was it the sailors or the boat at fault?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Joli

DOT, that is an absolutely true statement! That boat capsized, stayed inverted floating and drowned two sailors. Just like a multi hull does?

It was a monohull though. So what point are you trying to make? Monohulls that don't sink are more dangerous than ones that do? Monohulls that don't sink are really multihulls in disguise? Oh that's right, according to you mono's never sink....

[Joli]

The only capsized cruising multi that immediately comes to mind is the Atlantic 42 that flipped in Traverse Bay. They were day sailing and were nailed by a puff.

There are not many multi's around here, maybe 2~4 per thousand sailboats? The racing fleet probably has capsized 20~30% of the fleet at one time or another? Just a guess.

Regarding the Kiwi 35 in the CYC Mac, it was designed as a fun coastal cruiser, beer can racer (not unlike the Mac 36). These boats are not intended to sail in open water. Now CYC wil have to determine a minimum AVS, possibly restricting entry to only boats that self rescue. That may be it for multis in the Mac's, time will tell.

Do you own the old Finlandia?

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

I too have owned and raced on both multihulls and monos and prefer multis from a pure speed standpoint,there is just no comparison but the old saying ,different horses for different courses sure applies. i hate to say it but Joli is not wrong in his assesment of multies in races on the great lakes, they have a misserable record of capsize in a racing enviroment, it seems worse than elswhere, just a feeling, and, no, we dont have a lot of sinking monos. But, i cant think of a cruising cat flipping either. Regarding the Mac 36, there are over 300 of them out there, many are used as charter boats, there is one in Port Aransas,TX that has been carrying passengers for hire for 30 years, i did a lot of research before i bought mine and including the subject of this thread, i know of 2 that have flipped, the other one was at anchor in a hurricane in Belize many years ago, they have an enviable safety record. The one shown in this thread looks to me to have had the factory installed foam bouyancy removed otherwise it would not be down by the stern like that, those boats have so much foam installed that "sunk" is a mere inconvienience, you can keep on sailing while you pump it out. They also came with a masthead float and a righting system involving the 21ft spinnaker pole and a large water bag. I think to this day they offer the most potential speed for the buck of any boat ever built in the USA.
Steve.

[clockwork orange]

Hi Joli, no i dont own Finlandia but she is in the area, i saw her this summer looking pretty run down but in the water, great history that boat.
Steve.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

This season I sailed past 4 recently sunken monohulls in Queensland. Also saw one more mentioned as a hazard to navigation in the notices to mariners. Would you surmise from that that monohulls are unsuitable for Queensland waters?

EVERY TIME a catamaran capsizes anywhere on the planet, under any circumstances, we get the same garbage in here.

True, but I've never heard a monohuller deny that monohulls sink. On the other hand, have heard from plenty of multihullers that the capsizing cat is a myth.

[clockwork orange]

The 5 major factors that contribute to capsize of multihulls imho are
!/Crew skill
2/beam
3/weight
4/SA
5/Rig height

the more they are slanted to performance the more likely they are to capsize, you seem to see more of the Chris white cats flip (for the number in existance) than, say, Lagoons. Some designers just seem to get the balance of the above factors right and have great track records, Wharram immediatly comes to mind, there are many others. I bought an old beachcat on ebay last year and we sailed it quite a bit this summer, its a Pacific cat 19 which went into production in 1959,it is exceptionally stable even though it has a large sail area because the rig is short and it is heavy at 550lbs,(it has a solid bridgedeck) and yet, it can still scoot. I love this boat. My point is,for every feature you value in your choice of boat, you must acknowlege that you have given up other features that may be of value to others so this constant mono is better than multi and visa versa is just absurd.
Steve.
Steve.

[Cpt Sandbar]

I sailed on a MacGregor 36 as part of the crew during Galveston Bay races in the early 80's. It was the fastest boat in the bay and very exciting. The cat was past on to a new owner with me as the sailing mate. The owner was a dentist with protected hands which meant I did most of the work. The Mac 36 was a very early model with a foam filled mast wing and a webbed trampoline forward and solid trampoline aft. Does any one see where I going with this? On the last sail I made on the boat it started off as a nice relaxing sail, about 3 miles out the wind started to pick up, I was at the helm and was watching other boats and did not feel the windward haul rise out of the water about three feet. When I realized this it was to late as the wind transferred it's power to beneath the windward haul and filled the aft trampoline like a sail, capsizing the boat. The boat went over so fast and with so much power that it stuck (very solidly) the mast wing in the bottom mud of the bay which was about 10' deep. We hailed a sizeable power boat, past a line over the upper haul, tied it to the mast and righted the boat. I then spent the next four hours bailing. There were two reasons for the capsizing, first lack of full attention on my part and the solid trampoline which MacGregor later changed to a webbed trampoline. The next week the owner put the boat up for sail and at my request left me out of the sales agreement. I now sail at my leisurely pace on my 30' monohull.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by sneuman

True, but I've never heard a monohuller deny that monohulls sink. On the other hand, have heard from plenty of multihullers that the capsizing cat is a myth.

Selective hearing/reading? Or have you been living in a cave? (Oh yeah, you have a mono..)

Everyone knows cats can capsize. It's the standard argument - cats capsize, mono's sink.

What you DO hear is that MONO'S don't capsize. And of course, a couple of pages back, Joli tell us that mono's never sink.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by sneuman

True, but I've never heard a monohuller deny that monohulls sink. On the other hand, have heard from plenty of multihullers that the capsizing cat is a myth.

Name one person here that has said that cat capsizing is a myth, just one, una, ein.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Factor

........cat capsizing is a myth........

[44'cruisingcat]

Great contribution. However, you overlooked

Originally Posted by sneuman

...... the capsizing cat is a myth.

So there we have it, even from a monohull sailor. Cats don't capsize. Oh yeah, mono's don't sink either.

[s/v Jedi]

Soooo.... cats don't sink? My eyes must have deceived me then because I have seen a Prout and a Voyage 440 go down down down.

cheers,
Nick.

[markpierce]

You must have seen two monohulls sink together.

[sailstoo]

Gosh this is a fun thread. Can you imagine how much better it'd be if Hunter made a Catamaran?

[maytrix]

Why is this even an argument/discussion?

All boats can capsize and sink. It all depends on the conditions, boat and/or captain.

It's like an Xbox vs PS3 discussion or Mac vs Windows. There's no right or wrong. It's all preference.

I own a mono but completely prefer a cat due to the space. I find the space on a mono to be cramped. Why have to duck to get into bed when you can stand and even sit up in bed?