Catamaran tacking angles , really that bad???

[jdazey]

Yeah, it goes with the territory.


Cheers,
Joe

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'll need a converter.



I must have a kilometer of wire for the electronics already. That's just what I wanted, another kilo of cable, and another wire to pull.



Cheers.

Paul.

Feed it via WiFi with one of the Yacht Design NMEA gateway devices - no wire!! We have a Raymarine network and the Raymarine version https://www.yachtd.com/products/wifi_gateway.html just plugged straight into one of the open connections on one of our 5-way connectors. I put it into client mode so it’s on our internal network. It brings across all of the N2k data and also converts N0183 data.

In OpenCPN just create a connection to the WiFi address of the device.

I haven’t figured out to display our AIS data, which is coming from an ICOM AIS unit in NMEA 0183 format. The plotter reads it fine, so I figured it would come with the other plotter data, but nope. Sigh.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Thanks Fxykty.

You're right of course. I was focused on getting 90 degree tacks, and I'm not sure why. The important thing is to get upwind as quickly, and comfortably, as possible.

Yes, we do have boards. They're pretty fat, so should theoretically work fairly well in lower boat speeds.

I've sent an email to my B&G guy, to try and sort out the STW issue, we'll see how that goes.

I have Open CPN, and will work on getting it hooked into the nmea 2000 system, so I can start using it for this sort of stuff.

Thanks for nudging me back to what's really important.

Cheers.
Paul.

that was because you got dragged in fat boats game

Obviously learning, so that is good experience as well.

Heard somewhere that in direct duel gunboat vs outremer upwind, outremer won duel tacking 110, gunboat tacks around 90.

So you need to figure out best VMG which will likely be around 110 over ground.

It appears to me for our boat best VMG will be probably achieved with tacks around 100 or even less (when possible) as fxykty pointed out.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by fxykty

There is nothing bad to be tacking through 100 degrees and why do you say it sucks? The AC75s tack through well over 90 degrees - looks like 115 or so - and no one would argue that they’re not phenomenally fast upwind (or downwind, gybing through 130-140 degrees).

It is the VMG that matters and that is a combination of boat speed and angle. As a performance cat (with daggerboards I assume) you will likely get best VMG with higher boat speed and larger TWA. Pinching up will slow you down and disproportionately increase leeway, negating the better AWA and resulting in poorer VMG.

As you build experience with your boat you will be able to figure out whether she likes to point high and slow or low and fast, or somewhere in between, for best VMG. In certain conditions high and slow may be best (e.g. high wind and flat water).

As wings points out, use your actual tracks for analysis rather than your instruments. Mark your sail controls so that you can replicate settings, irrespective of your possibly miscalibrated instruments.

If they are tacking at 18° AWA then maximum VMG is at around 54 and a bit degrees so the best theoretical tack is 109° + windage.

[GRIT]

Thanks Fxykty, wireless sounds like the ticket. I'll see if I can do it that way, when I get out of the Bahamas.

arsenelupiga: That may be the case, that I got pulled into the fat boat's game. It's all your fault, for saying you could tack at less than 90 degrees!

I agree, it is a good learning experience in any case. Getting by a shoal doesn't require best VMG if it's a narrow passage. I have lots to learn about going fast.

Thanks all, for your comments, and help.

Paul.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Thanks Fxykty, wireless sounds like the ticket. I'll see if I can do it that way, when I get out of the Bahamas.

arsenelupiga: That may be the case, that I got pulled into the fat boat's game. It's all your fault, for saying you could tack at less than 90 degrees!

I agree, it is a good learning experience in any case. Getting by a shoal doesn't require best VMG if it's a narrow passage. I have lots to learn about going fast.

Thanks all, for your comments, and help.

Paul.

*I believe you can do it with the wifi built into the B&G equipment you already have. We could with our Vesper AIS.

Matt

[GRIT]

Well that's exciting. I'll try that this week.

Thanks Matt.

Cheers.
Paul.

[BobL1981]

We sold our Lagoon 42 last year after an Atlantic crossing and 8 months cruising in the Virgin Islands. I just looked back into some of my notes and I have several notes of sailing at 6.1 knots in 19 AWS at 40 AWA.

We sailed winds like this often when having friends come to visit, we would lay out an itinerary that best suited entertainment versus taking advantage of the winds. We would always sail and rarely turn on the engine mostly because my friends wanted the sailing experience. However, had it just been me and my wife, we would’ve likely just motored in a straight shot. These were short runs though.

IMHO, newer, heavier cats can do it, you’re just not going to break any speed records.... unless you count going slow as a record. :-)

[CatNewBee]

Who said Lagoons can't sail?
(Code0 + Main)

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Who said Lagoons can't sail? Attachment 239307
(Code0 + Main)

Everything's relative isnt it?

https://youtu.be/7dHkY_XaSGk

Working sails only.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Everything's relative isnt it?

https://youtu.be/7dHkY_XaSGk

Working sails only.

So did you catch anything?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Who said Lagoons can't sail? Attachment 239307
(Code0 + Main)

that is really excellent, knowing how much your boat is loaded

Please next time add disclaimer in front of such post "WARNING- GRAPHIC CONTENT" should do. Some people on CF get offended when Lagoons display great sailing.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by jdazey

So did you catch anything?

It's a long time ago, but no, I don't think we did.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Who said Lagoons can't sail? Attachment 239307
(Code0 + Main)

CatNewBee, I don't think this is particularly good, 8kts of boat speed in 12knots of wind at a true wind angle of about 120 degrees. That should the cat's best point of sail and I think I could almost keep up with my mono flying similar sails.
Show us some up wind work with tacks.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Who said Lagoons can't sail? Attachment 239307
(Code0 + Main)

Well, that pic caught you at a very nice speed. Would I be right in guessing that it was a brief moment, showing the best you achieved that day, and not representative of the average speeds?

Perhaps not, but I doubt if anyone has ever posted a picture of instruments taken during a slow spell!

We've seen a few fleeting periods of 15+ knots in our mono, and that would have made a great photo...but high 9s and low 10s are t he best we've ever done for sustained periods... and those under really good conditions and with the tanks pretty empty. Emptying all the lockers would likely help these numbers even further, but it is a live aboard long term cruising boat, after all! Our passage speeds tend to average about 7 knots and we don't motor much at sea... and we're two old farts who no longer trim for speed all the time!

So, my point is that these pix don't prove much to me. I have no personal experience to judge whether Lagoons or any other condo style cats can outsail more performance oriented vessels, but it is very hard to believe that fatter hulls with lower SA to D ratios can ever be quicker than their slim hulled and bigger rigged sisters. Nothing that has been posted here has changed that perception for me.

And it doesn't make any difference anyhow! You all seem to be happy with your boats and their performance. What does it matter if one is a bit faster than the other? They are all faster than many cruisers can ever hope to be, and none are faster than their bigger sisters.

Jim