Catamarans in 50kt winds

[impi]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Just to make it easier for the rest of you

Nicely done - Thanks

[Factor]

Originally Posted by lindabarzini

I'm thinking of my next purchase now. It seems to me that a Catamaran is more comfortable, quicker, and doesn't heel. It's negatives are price and pointing.

The multis I sail on point as well as and in some cases better than any of the monos outside the supermaxia or race boats.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Factor

The multis I sail on point as well as and in some cases better than any of the monos outside the supermaxia or race boats.

words are cheap. Couple of videos would make your statements credible.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Just to make it easier for the rest of you

This is such the classic storm condition sailing video. Thanks for posting as I always enjoy watching it. The excitement of the woman simply makes me laugh, the laundry hanging on the back, the drogue, the hanky of jib - literally everything I see is perfect in conditions that some say they have sailed but somehow never were able to capture on video.

Impi, I've always enjoyed your videos and absolutely know when you post something it's from well learned experience. I hope our paths cross sometime as we have only exchanged messages in the past.

One of the best threads on storm conditions on this forum was actually started by Yeloya many (8?) years ago. IMO the main point is that while battening down the hatches and deploying a sea anchor on a mono is a viable option, multihulls really need active management to safely survive true storm force winds.

[arsenelupiga]

when we went thru southerly front when crossing from New Cal to Aus, had 60 kn initially and then 40 for couple days. Mainly sailing beam reach in 5 m waves.

One needs to be mindful of freak waves, they are larger than normal and arrived from 90 degrees away from the main train. Hitting one directly, you better have plenty of buoyancy in bows and hope they not breaking.

I was thinking at that point to turn from the course so freak waves and main train will be taken more from stern, but steepness of freak waves was not enough worrying. So from my memory they arrived only from one side 90 deg away, but not totally sure.

I hated surfing down waves so when this happened turned away 60 degrees or so. Drogue that slows you down a lot, did not feel that was good solution.

The other formation was 3 waves in sequence, middle being the largest and steepest. Here speed is important, so one navigates worst parts.

When pitch black, ears are your eyes

safe sailing everyone

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Sos

There was a Prout that flipped while at anchor, in Greece.
Heavy boat with low bridgedeck clearance!

Not really a heavy boat. A fair bit less than a lagoon 380, but also with a low freeboard, and less windage. The static stability should be absolutely massive.

The incident you refer to was in Vliho bay. It's genoa partial unfurled. 6 people died in that micro-burst, and a few monos sunk and others damaged in the boat yard that props them up with oil drums. I believe wind speeds were given in mph at over 106.

There is a video on youtube somewhere.

I remmeber researching it when I was anchored there, incidentally in a Prout

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

words are cheap. Couple of videos would make your statements credible.

A few days ago, I happened to compare the new Excess 11 with our Hanse 388. On paper, the optimal VMG for our Hanse is 6-8 degrees higher (42-44 TWA). The Excess is faster with better VMG, however, within 8-16 TWS.

Polar diagrams are slightly more expensive than words, but still cheaper than videos

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

Hitting one directly, you better have plenty of buoyancy in bows and hope they not breaking.

A very valid point given the trend for reverse bows.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

A few days ago, I happened to compare the new Excess 11 with our Hanse 388. On paper, the optimal VMG for our Hanse is 6-8 degrees higher (42-44 TWA). The Excess is faster with better VMG, however, within 8-16 TWS.

Polar diagrams are slightly more expensive than words, but still cheaper than videos

you made me look at Excess 11 but could not find polar. Can you provide link?


Looked at Excess 12 and is slightly shorter, slightly narrower, same weight, and less sail area (in racing version) 87m2 compared to 96m2 of L 400. So L400 should be able to do what Excess 11 or 12 can do , give or take.

Funny polar diagram released by lagoon for L 400. I bet every lagoon 400 is faster than what they published as best speed for L 400. You figure....

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Not really a heavy boat. A fair bit less than a lagoon 380, but also with a low freeboard, and less windage.
The incident you refer to was in Vliho bay. It's genoa partial unfurled.

The storm in Vliho is worth studying, particularly for someone who is interested in anchors. I was not there, but a number of friends were. Very sad.

Just a point of correction, the genoa did not partially unfurl.

There is an account from the owner here (post # 365)
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...175996-19.html

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The storm in Vliho is worth studying, particularly for someone who is interested in anchors. I was not there, but a number of friends were. Very sad.

Just a point of correction, the genoa did not partially unfurl.

There is an account from the owner here (post # 365)
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...175996-19.html

Thanks for the correction. I do remember reading that report now. Obviously the owners know much better, but I remember a report of a partial Genoa unfurl perhaps it was on one of the other boats. A lot got into trouble that day in a short space of time.

I've seen boats dancing around all over the place on anchor there. I'm not sure why. The thick mud bottom has good holding. In fact further up in Tranquilo bay I couldn't raise my anchor. Took 4-5 attempts it was that far sunk into the thick mud. I think the use of a bridle is important, and unless a quick lunch stop, I don't anchor without one.

[impi]

Originally Posted by Palarran

This is such the classic storm condition sailing video. Thanks for posting as I always enjoy watching it. The excitement of the woman simply makes me laugh, the laundry hanging on the back, the drogue, the hanky of jib - literally everything I see is perfect in conditions that some say they have sailed but somehow never were able to capture on video.

Impi, I've always enjoyed your videos and absolutely know when you post something it's from well learned experience. I hope our paths cross sometime as we have only exchanged messages in the past.

One of the best threads on storm conditions on this forum was actually started by Yeloya many (8?) years ago. IMO the main point is that while battening down the hatches and deploying a sea anchor on a mono is a viable option, multihulls really need active management to safely survive true storm force winds.

Thanks Pallaran - I can see by your replies you are a great part of the sailing community and spirit.

It’s awesome to have folks sharing their experiences and totally agree with mono hull tactics in heavy weather being very different to those that should be employed by Catamarans in heavy weather. As you mention in most conditions it’s safer to keep a catamaran active in storms and tactics can change from one weather system to the next and we’ve found that when a cat surfs down waves and becomes dangerous that deploying warps to hold it back is the way to go, and still keeps the boat moving with the system.

We absolutely hope to meet you on the water some day - wonder where that would be?
We are sailing the last few countries in SE Asia and getting ready for our jump across the Indian back to South Africa later in the season. Either going to buy our third cat or do some Upgrades to Impi for the next round - chances are good we can hook up for that beer somewhere aye!

Thanks for the good hearted spirit you show here and as mentioned, seldom post on CF so let us know if you see us in your region.

Cheers
Brent

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by impi

Nicely done - Thanks

I watched your video of crossing the southern ocean in big waves a few years back
As I wanted real action video's of that ocean, ,
I intend coming across there in a year or two,
Perth to Melbourne,
Excellent video of the conditions out there, Thank you,
But I dont intend trying to sail it in big waves,
I have a 200 mile gap across the bottom that should keep me out of any really bad weather,
From one sheltered bay to the next, Then wait for good weather to continue,

I was in Bass Straight 3 weeks ago in winds well over 35 knots, Full on washing machine,
My only concern was losing the mast, It was getting bashed chronically,
My worst storm ever, My cat was going side to side and reversing in the waves,
It was constantly at 45 degrees sideways, First time its ever done that,
I turned on my spreader lights coming into Western Port Bay heads, 2-30 AM,
Didnt like what I saw and turned them off again,
Thats a real nasty ocean out there,
Hand steering and lock to lock to keep it going forwards, using the Light house light to keep it straight, The GPS couldnt keep up with the constant spinning around of the boat,

Cheers, Brian,

[Angels of Rio]

If you are looking at what a small Cat is capable of Gemini 105Mc. 45 Knots of wind mid Atlantic northern route out of Chesapeake to England. Tony Smith (Designer & builder of the Gemini and his son)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYBblEPemo4

Big seas. I bought that boat after delivery to England. I sailed across Biscay and encountered 35 knots and 20ft seas. No real issue with resonable seamanship and respect for the elements as always

[Mr B]

This video is why I bought my 2003 Gemini 105 MC,
Secondly, I can park it on a sandy beach with the tide out,
My Gemini was one of the first built after he came back from England and ripped out the Cherry wood panelling and made the Gemini Lighter,