Cats with Dagger Boards?

[dougaljackson]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Agree nice looking boat and a very competitive stripped out race boat but not sure it is robust enough to qualify as a long distance cruiser. Didn't WOW end up in La Reunion with destroyed chamfer panels after crossing the Indian Ocean.

Was this because of structural strength issues or cruising loads exceeding the design?

Hey there.

Full disclosure: I have a Stealth being built, so I’m obviously biased about the boats and the people behind them.

That said, I did my due diligence before putting down a deposit, know a few owners and one of the crew on Wow for Cape 2 Rio who told me about it firsthand.

Pretty sure the Reunion stop was minor/cosmetic damage or a scheduled haul out, because he didn’t mention anything significant except the daggerboards, which they broke during the race, mid-Atlantic, going 20+ knots in cross seas.

Given how forthcoming Alan and Roger have been about any issues and their expertise, I’m inclined to believe that it wasn’t anything structural.

Wow was intended as a racer capable of circumnavigation, not a cruiser. It’s built crazy light, pushed hard, won the Heineken Regatta in St Maarten and has almost finished circumnavigation.

The full race versions are constructed with the ethos of ‘if it doesn’t break, it’s probably overbuilt’. If racing is less a focus, but you still want to go quick and sail in light wind, they do a cruising version that can be customised for purpose.

Light, strong, fast boats with a focus on simplicity and mechanical systems that are easy to diagnose and repair.

Definitely not for most, nor do they claim to be.

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by dougaljackson

Hey there.

Full disclosure: I have a Stealth being built, so I’m obviously biased about the boats and the people behind them.

What would be the light displacement of your Stealth 13.2 ?
Is she built as a racer or a cruiser ?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by dougaljackson

Hey there.

Full disclosure: I have a Stealth being built, so I’m obviously biased about the boats and the people behind them.

That said, I did my due diligence before putting down a deposit, know a few owners and one of the crew on Wow for Cape 2 Rio who told me about it firsthand.

Pretty sure the Reunion stop was minor/cosmetic damage or a scheduled haul out, because he didn’t mention anything significant except the daggerboards, which they broke during the race, mid-Atlantic, going 20+ knots in cross seas.

Given how forthcoming Alan and Roger have been about any issues and their expertise, I’m inclined to believe that it wasn’t anything structural.

Wow was intended as a racer capable of circumnavigation, not a cruiser. It’s built crazy light, pushed hard, won the Heineken Regatta in St Maarten and has almost finished circumnavigation.

The full race versions are constructed with the ethos of ‘if it doesn’t break, it’s probably overbuilt’. If racing is less a focus, but you still want to go quick and sail in light wind, they do a cruising version that can be customised for purpose.

Light, strong, fast boats with a focus on simplicity and mechanical systems that are easy to diagnose and repair.

Definitely not for most, nor do they claim to be.

This kind of bears out my comment that I thought the boats weren't robust enough to qualify as long distance cruisers. They appear to be competitive race boats but is a boat that is pushing the envelope a sensible choice as long distance cruiser having to deal with storms without breaking.

[dougaljackson]

Originally Posted by ozolli

What would be the light displacement of your Stealth 13.2 ?
Is she built as a racer or a cruiser ?

Fast cruiser mainly, with the odd regatta. Not so much around the cans racing, but longer rallies. Should come in at 3,600kg dry. Bit heavier and beamier than the sports version, with a fixed carbon rig versus rotating. Perfect tropics island hopper.

Originally Posted by Tupaia

This kind of bears out my comment that I thought the boats weren't robust enough to qualify as long distance cruisers. They appear to be competitive race boats but is a boat that is pushing the envelope a sensible choice as long distance cruiser having to deal with storms without breaking.

You’re right that Wow definitely isn’t the boat for your average world cruiser. It’s a machine. The owners wanted a race winner also capable of circumnavigation. Tick and tick.

For OP, add Marsauden TS42 to the list if it hasn’t been mentioned already. A few of those floating around at a reasonable price a few years back. Who knows now though, market is crazy.

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by dougaljackson

For OP, add Marsauden TS42 to the list if it hasn’t been mentioned already. A few of those floating around at a reasonable price a few years back. Who knows now though, market is crazy.

One TS42 built in 2016 is offered at 870K€ and one built in 2021 at 850K€. Market is crazy.

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

This kind of bears out my comment that I thought the boats weren't robust enough to qualify as long distance cruisers. They appear to be competitive race boats but is a boat that is pushing the envelope a sensible choice as long distance cruiser having to deal with storms without breaking.

Errr. no. You obviously didn't read, that's not what he said.

Wow was built as a cruiser racer, deliberately. That doesn't mean that 'the boats' aren't robust enough to qualify as long distance cruisers. It simply means that the boatyard will build the boat you want based on the the basic design.

Having said that, If you want a condomaran, look elsewhere.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by markiobe

Errr. no. You obviously didn't read, that's not what he said.

Wow was built as a cruiser racer, deliberately. That doesn't mean that 'the boats' aren't robust enough to qualify as long distance cruisers. It simply means that the boatyard will build the boat you want based on the the basic design.

Having said that, If you want a condomaran, look elsewhere.

If it got trashed as badly as I remember because of a storm and you have to relay on a support team for repairs then it doesn't look like it is robust enough for distance cruising, it is a racer.



What have condomarans got to do with anything?

[markiobe]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

If it got trashed as badly as I remember because of a storm and you have to relay on a support team for repairs then it doesn't look like it is robust enough for distance cruising, it is a racer.

So you meant ‘the boat’ and not ‘the boats’? In which case I apologise for not recognising your typo.

My point was; to defame ‘the boats’, plural, from the situation that occurred on one of them that was designed specifically as a cruiser racer, and maybe, to your point, not really made for very bad conditions, doesn’t in any way mean that others are not suitable for distance cruising. Your typo implied that, and assuming it was a typo then obviously you'll realise that its implication is disingenuous?

For clarity, these boats are semi-custom, or semi-production, depending on your pov. They are incredibly well built, for the purpose for which they were built, and each one is different as a function of the owners wishes.

Originally Posted by Tupaia

What have condomarans got to do with anything?

These boats are so different from your average production catamaran that if those boats are your points of reference then you'll have a hard time understanding this. Asia Catamarans is incapable of building a condomaran, it's just not in their DNA. I'm not making a value judgement here, simply it's important to understand that different horses want different courses and someone that buys a Lagoon/FP/Leopard/Privilege/etc/etc does not want nor understand a Stealth and likely vice versa.

[Bigmarv]

I like the boats, but would like to know:
- what was the damage actually suffered, and how did it happen? If you're dealing with Stealth they may tell you.
- what differences in layup etc there was on Wow compared to the other Stealth boats. If it suffered structural chamfer panel damage it would be good to know if the others are different.

Constructively interested.

[dougaljackson]

From the owner re: Reunion haul out:

The hull opened up a non-structural crack and we had to nurse it; slowing down a light weight race machine to a mellow 5 knots is hard... still surfing down waves at 16 knots.

Love the definition of 'nurse'. They hauled out at Reunion and then went home before continuing to the Cape, which is probably why it was on the hard so long. I have a photo somewhere that shows it coming out of the water and I don't remember seeing anything significant. Might've been flex at the hull/chamfer panel join?

From the crew re: daggerboard breakage during race

The daggerboard broke on the sacrificial tip designed to prevent damage to case during groundings and collisions. The replacement board was built the same and it broke as well. The latest iterations obviously take this into consideration, depending on use.

Anyway, I'm sure Alan would have no problem giving full details to anyone contacting them directly.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by markiobe

These boats are so different from your average production catamaran that if those boats are your points of reference then you'll have a hard time understanding this. Asia Catamarans is incapable of building a condomaran, it's just not in their DNA. I'm not making a value judgement here, simply it's important to understand that different horses want different courses and someone that buys a Lagoon/FP/Leopard/Privilege/etc/etc does not want nor understand a Stealth and likely vice versa.

No condomarans would not be my reference.

My own boat is a similar size and a custom build. We arrived in La Reunion around the same time having sailed in similar conditions.

The Indian ocean is a testing place with horrible cross seas that pound you from all directions. Out of all the oceans we have crossed we did not enjoy this one. We had periods of 5 knots and heavy breaking seas and periods where we were doing 18 knots (max speed was 19.2). Winds were typically in the mid forties, we didn't break anything.

There is a fine line between race boat and fast cruiser and a big gap between them and condomarans and I am not saying boats never break.

Seeing a damaged boat always leads to questions. Was the damage to Wow repaired to the same schedule as the original or were the layups increased? What effect did the repairs have on the displacement? As a potential purchaser the question I would be asking is; was the overall structural integrity of subsequent boats reassessed and built differently, using alternative materials, redesigned or just more of the same? What was their solution to the problem?