Cheap Multis and Projects

[owly]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Only $600, Such a deal!!!!
https://www.latitude38.com/classifie...?cat=multihull

Here's a free one:


https://www.free-boat.com/free/31-pi...ran-goleta-ca/

[Wannabes00n]

Here's a pay to go one!

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/...947022917.html

[senormechanico]

I imagine that's going to be a mysterious fire and sinking in the middle of the night somewhere in deep water.
(provided it will even burn...)

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by Wannabes00n

Here's a pay to go one!

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/...947022917.html

Looks like a Searunner to me. Anyone know for sure?

jon

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by longjonsilver

Looks like a Searunner to me. Anyone know for sure?

jon

Definitely a Searunner. Judging by the size of the humans it looks like the 37 or maybe even the 40. Dang, lotta work there.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by magentawave

Definitely a Searunner. Judging by the size of the humans it looks like the 37 or maybe even the 40. Dang, lotta work there.

. Ad says shez 42 ft, so i figure shez a 40 with an extension on the stern. Lotta work, but lotta boat for a negative 500 bucks. Guess she could be towed or an outboard attached. Doesn't say anything about a motor.

jon

[Wannabes00n]

I stumbled across this interesting tri the other day. Anyone know anything about the design/designer? Appears to check alot of things on my list besides being across an ocean...

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...=rubrikk_group

[Buzzman]

According to his own website, Jim is these days writing about historical figures of the Australian outback, but was, in the Seventies at least, a yacht designer.

His website details the build (and research) that went into his first tri, Pluto, that was tank-tested at his university as part of his final year project.

PLuto in the piucs appears to have a somewhat asymmetrical ama design, simloar at least to the amas on Strider, so it's possibly by the same hand.

One sales site suggests it was a Ditchfield Design / Hayward Boats build.

There is a phone number on Ditchfields site if anyone wants to call him.

https://www.jimditchfield.com.au/home/

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

According to his own website, Jim is these days writing about historical figures of the Australian outback, but was, in the Seventies at least, a yacht designer.

His website details the build (and research) that went into his first tri, Pluto, that was tank-tested at his university as part of his final year project.

PLuto in the piucs appears to have a somewhat asymmetrical ama design, simloar at least to the amas on Strider, so it's possibly by the same hand.

One sales site suggests it was a Ditchfield Design / Hayward Boats build.

There is a phone number on Ditchfields site if anyone wants to call him.

https://www.jimditchfield.com.au/home/

Never heard of this guy. Crazy life this Jim had when being young ....
https://www.jimditchfield.com.au/abo...chfield-story/

Some info about the Trimaran Pluto he designed for the OSTAR....
https://www.jimditchfield.com.au/stories/general/boats

(have uploaded the images, found via Google Image, as they have disappeared on Jim's Website)

Thought on my own to buy it, but 5 ft headroom isn't just enough for my 1.83 meter height.

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by Wannabes00n

Appears to check alot of things on my list besides being across an ocean...
[/url]

25ft transocean, sounds ambitious.

What to be checked a lot ?? - Its just a very small boat.


You cannot take more with you on board as what it is ... as you cannot overload such a tiny Tri. The survival guarantee for trans-ocean is to keep it light. Suppose already 2 gas bottles in reserve is too much heavy weight to take with you for using the stove for delicious meals (*joking*).

Little bit check of rudder, daggerboards, beam, standing and running rig, little bit sails, thats it. Maybe little bit glassing, if you should find soft spots or some rotten plywood ...

As the single 12 volt battery is charged via outborder, I'd like to install a 2nd battery for the autopilot and all the other electronic devices, a solar panel and little wind turbine, a converter/inverter. Also modern VHF with AIS to be more safe as single-handed sailor. - That's it.

In the specifications is not mentioned any water tanks. I suppose that might be the biggest hurdle for trans-ocean. You'd have to calculate at least 4-6 weeks water reserves (for the worst case scenario), estimated 3-400 litres per person.

Good luck for your plans :-)

P.S.: Just buy it, and sail it one season on the coast, so you get a feeling for this design and if you can trust it. No need to think too much about it, as its so cheap. - - In coming winter then you can start to check all details on the dry and refit it. If you should be in England already, go next summer down to South Europe, and prepare trans-atlantic to sail in autumn 2020 to Canarean islands, so far you don't plan to go down to South Africa to conquer the next ocean round corner :-)

[Buzzman]

Usual 'tight' water consumption figure is 4L/person/day, so that's 400L if it will take you 100 days to cross!

Otherwise, maybe 240L for two pax would be plenty, especially if you have a rain-catching syste, OR, budget for a 35kg Katadyn 40E and carry only 40L with a spare empty can to take the daily production.

Key with small tris is to keep it light.

400L of water weighs 400Kg.

60L of water in three jerrys weighs 60Kg, plus 35Kg for the Katadyn, 95kg.

So you'd have room for the missus....

Might need an extra solar panel to run it though...

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Usual 'tight' water consumption figure is 4L/person/day, so that's 400L if it will take you 100 days to cross!

Otherwise, maybe 240L for two pax would be plenty, especially if you have a rain-catching syste, OR, budget for a 35kg Katadyn 40E and carry only 40L with a spare empty can to take the daily production.

Key with small tris is to keep it light.

400L of water weighs 400Kg.

60L of water in three jerrys weighs 60Kg, plus 35Kg for the Katadyn, 95kg.

So you'd have room for the missus....

Might need an extra solar panel to run it though...

Interesting .... 4 litres inclusive "drink water" ?? - Then I overtop it on my own 150% I live now 1.5 years on a boat, I have a 70 litre water tank, and must fill it constantly 1 times per week. Fairly to say, not taking too much care for low water consumption. Showering I do generally only in the harbour/marina, never on the boat.

On traditional sailing ships I work in charter business we have ~3000 litre water tanks for 20 guests in average. As they shower on board, the consumption is daily around 15-20 litres / person. So we have to bunker weekly 3 tons of water which takes many hours or half night to refill depending on the size of the water hose and water pressure system in the harbour. Naturally on bigge sailing ships of 25-30 meters there is plenty of space to install such bigger tanks (plus 1,000 litre for grey water and 2-3000 for diesel). Not the best example for yachting on smaller boats. But it gives an idea if people get out of control not to take care for water consumption.

On my own I drink at least 2-3 litres per day (inclusive making coffee, tea), plus daily fresh cooking, dish washing, body care (incl. hair washing without showering), cleaning the boat inside periodically (probably not wise to do it with salt water) and I need 7 litres at least per day, if I keep it tight. - Little bit reserve +20-30% in a tank gives me good feeling not to run out of water when starting the morning to make delicious coffee :-)

I don't buy all that sugar stuff nowadays typically seen on boats like coke, fanta, energy drinks, not to forget beer etc. ... that's lots of weight to bunker. I prefer healthy life style = water (in clean trustworthy water tank) and fruit juice (without extra sugar).

For now I don't need to think in reserves on a purely day sailing/coastal boat in North Europe as all marinas have excellent facilities and water services. But generally I would not like to have such small tank as mentioned above. If it would be my own boat I would take a 200 litre tank for 2 persons at least to go coastal sailing, being flexible in route planning and weather navigation for ~1 week with out re-filling, safely. - For trans-ocean it would be not enough I think just having 100 litre tank capacity for one person. But thats my personal safety zone which might be different for others.

What if you have unexpected a mast broken and must keep sailing under emergency rig at very low speed ? Might double the calculated sailing time, right ?


If living on a sportive multihull, I'd invest in a water maker to keep the huge weight of bigger water tanks low. Its an expensive investment, but suppose there is no way around to keep the boat light and fast.

You mention rain catching system. Have forgotten that. Too long only coastal sailor . Any specific solution in mind ?

[Buzzman]

Skip - OK, so you generally use 10L per day. Just one person..??

If so, that's 2/3rds to half of what you quote a commercial vessel budgeted *including showers*.... so if an average shower is 9L/min, and most people have at LEAST a 5 min shower, that should be around 45L per person per shower. So 20L per day is probably not enough, if showers are included - generally speaking...

Of course, you could halve that by utilising a much lower flow shower head and reducing the time in the shower to three minutes, say 3min X 4L/min, or 12L per person per shower.

Which is a bit closer to your 10L/day (excluding showering) + 12L for showers = 20-ish L/day/person.

The 4L/day (driniking and cooking only) figure I gleaned from several authors (off top of head can't recall which, but more than one used a similar figure) for "long ocean passage water economy".

So, no, not at all "typical" consumptiuon figures. For estimating ocean passage minimalist consumption.

Assuming, as you pointed out, that a rigging disaster may dramatically delay time to next port, putting undue pressue on water supplies. They all factored in a 'what if' margin.

One tale I read that highlighted this was 'Sheila in the Wind', NZ writer, Adrian Hayter's tale of sailing Sheila II back to NZ from UK in the early Fifties, during which he was becalmed for weeks off northern Australia, due mainly to excess weed growth preventing his ship sailing in the low airs he encountered, causing him to run out of water completely, until saved by a rain storm.

He merely hung up an awning and directed the flow off one edge into the tank.

The book about the infamous Rose Noelle trimaran capsize, in which the crew subsisted for three months after the boat overturned off NZ in the central Pacific, demonstrated a method whereby they salvaged some resin and fillers and built up a small 'mound' on the upturned hull to direct any rainfall to a pipe leading to their water jugs, and were thus able to replenish their water supply.

Many ocean-crossing boats have reported methodologies for catching water on long passages, usually involving the bimini, an over-cockpit awning, hard-top or even directing water falling on the sails and running off the mast end of the boom into a catch pocket and tube to the tanks.

There are even dedicated rain-catching products - fabric type to be rigged during rain showers only - available on the market

https://www.sailboat-cruising.com/rain-catchers.html

And their are loads of useful suggestions and specific methodologies here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ods-28749.html

[Skip JayR]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

So 20L per day is probably not enough, if showers are included - generally speaking...[/URL]

Tks for your valuable infos, Buzzman.

Just a short answer, as I don't like to disturb or mix up this thread for "cheap multihulls (and projects)" with another interesting topic on its own like "water tank capacities and daily water consumption": We only have daily port-to-port sailing on the Dutch traditional sailing vessels along the coast of Netherlands, with very unique type of gaff rigged flat bottom ships with side daggerboards. Klipperaarks, Tjalks had been used till beginning of 20s century as cargo sailors (even sailing to Denmark and England) for transporting goods.

Some hulls had been equipped then in the 20s/30s last century with engine and transported goods also on the Rhine. Some had been in work till the 80s.

Such hulls are regularly more than 100 or or even 120 years old, mostly re-rigged since the 60s/70s last century to rescue them from the scrap yard ...


...being equipped and modernized over the time of last 40-50 years with maximum 2-3 showers. As the charter guests see daily a port with comfortable shower cabines, many prefer these facilities on land.


If 20 people would shower on board in the morning with just 2 cabins, assuming each only uses 4 minutes, it would take 40 minutes alone for this start into the day. Long queue front the shower cabins :-) - For the Ladies nearby impossible if washing long hair, I suppose. :-) More easy to go to the marina showers where they also find hair dryers which are forbidden to use on our ships overloading the batteries. - Never seen a timer in one of the shower cabins on board, while in the Marinas there regularly a timer is limiting the shower fun to something between 4-6 minutes. So the upper named average consumption of 15-20 litres/person is mostly with very low shower use. (Rec.: Had last year a Polish charter group on board, nearby 30 people. One of the Ladies had the habit, to use the shower endless time far after partying and midnight before going to bed at 1-2 am. The water pressure pump had a hard work for more than 30 minutes every night, installed close to my own berth robbing my sleep. This woman drove me crazy jumping every night out of the bed to check if the water system had a leakage. )

Back to the regular topic ... :-)

[Buzzman]

Just to be clear, I'm not stating you *can't* get by on less than 20L per day - including bathing - just that this is not easy without adopting serious water economies.

For example, as someone else suggested - just stop bathing for the week(s) of your ocean passage.

Not terribly practical, as salt would no doubt build up and cause chafing... but you see what I mean.

My comment was based on the obvious - that multihulls need to keep load weight to the minimum, or suffer a reduction in performance - so the recommendation of a couple of jerrys of 'emergency water' and a solar-PV-powered watermaker is the 'most appropriate' methodology for ocean-crossing multihulls. [IMHO]

But as the Rose Noelle crew proved, even an upturned hull can be used to capture enough rainwater to keep body and soul together, so 'capture methods' are also very well worth considering, especially given the acres of deck space on the average multihull that could be covered with a tarp to collect water.

As any hydrology student can tell you, increasing the area of the 'roof' dramatically increases the volume of rain 'captured' in any given 'rain event'.

I suspect (not having tried this myself) that a typical fore hatch fabric air scoop could be detached from the hatch and re-rigged as a rain-capture device, thereby killing two birds with one tarp, so to speak.

And we were talking about reducing weight....



YMMV