Chotu's Advanced Running Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

[Cavalier MK2]

My 2 cents is to skip the track, use your furler, roll some up and use a jib boom when you want to self tack. You can trim and sheet with just one line. Attach the pivot/gooseneck end about 10% + - behind the furler. As you ease the sheet this allows more camber. Norm Cross drew these for all his boats back when. When not used stow where convenient.

[SV Confianza]

If you have the sheets run to the helm station, and good sheeting angle, I’d prefer a genoa and not a self tacking jib. Our boat is a pain in the neck to tack with one person, since the sheets are run port/stbd and not both to helm.

Young barnacles had some good videos on sailing upwind in a car that would be useful. I’m definitely not skilled enough to talk about proper sheeting angle and sail slot design.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

My 2 cents is to skip the track, use your furler, roll some up and use a jib boom when you want to self tack. You can trim and sheet with just one line. Attach the pivot/gooseneck end about 10% + - behind the furler. As you ease the sheet this allows more camber. Norm Cross drew these for all his boats back when. When not used stow where convenient.

I forgot all about the jib boom options. Thank you for reminding me. Definitely something to consider.

i’m not sure it’s possible for me to put it 10% behind the furler though. There is nothing but air and a very lightweight walkway there. Nothing to attach it to

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SV Confianza

If you have the sheets run to the helm station, and good sheeting angle, I’d prefer a genoa and not a self tacking jib. Our boat is a pain in the neck to tack with one person, since the sheets are run port/stbd and not both to helm.

Young barnacles had some good videos on sailing upwind in a car that would be useful. I’m definitely not skilled enough to talk about proper sheeting angle and sail slot design.

As far as where the sheets are run, this is what I'll have, with the exception that my helm is not on the plinth/sail control table. It's more forward, just to starboard of it

[Chotu]

Then there is this approach at the bottom. a combo like we talked about earlier

https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-a...cking-staysail

[s/v Jedi]

I have mentioned this before in another thread: don’t put all that hardware like tracks on the boat. They aren’t needed and designed to generate income for the companies selling it. Shiny precious.

A couple pad eyes, maybe even soft pad eyes are all you need. Create a self tacking jib as shown by our beloved rigging doctor or even stick a large batten in the foot of the jib to assist and work like a jib boom but of course it needs to be pulled out before furling.

The same pad eyes can accommodate twengs, barbers etc. that not just replace tracks but do a better job. Creating flexible attachment points is what I would focus on.

What size jib is the boat designed for? I would guess, like Jedi which is similar rigged, just a 100% high aspect jib? Keep to that on a furler and you’re good for now. We upgraded to a 105% in 2004 which is okay but I wouldn’t go larger than that.

You have a cat! A dream for the symmetric spinnaker you got. Two tack lines, one to each bow for full control and a sock to douse it. Perfect.

What’s left is reaching, which is what you need the bow sprit for with a nice asymmetric, but you could even put the symmetric on it for now. Is there nothing in the center that you could attach a tack line to? Anchor sprit?

[geoleo]

No jib in the world will be good at tacking upwind with 20% rolled up!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have mentioned this before in another thread: don’t put all that hardware like tracks on the boat. They aren’t needed and designed to generate income for the companies selling it. Shiny precious.

A couple pad eyes, maybe even soft pad eyes are all you need. Create a self tacking jib as shown by our beloved rigging doctor or even stick a large batten in the foot of the jib to assist and work like a jib boom but of course it needs to be pulled out before furling.

The same pad eyes can accommodate twengs, barbers etc. that not just replace tracks but do a better job. Creating flexible attachment points is what I would focus on.

What size jib is the boat designed for? I would guess, like Jedi which is similar rigged, just a 100% high aspect jib? Keep to that on a furler and you’re good for now. We upgraded to a 105% in 2004 which is okay but I wouldn’t go larger than that.

You have a cat! A dream for the symmetric spinnaker you got. Two tack lines, one to each bow for full control and a sock to douse it. Perfect.

What’s left is reaching, which is what you need the bow sprit for with a nice asymmetric, but you could even put the symmetric on it for now. Is there nothing in the center that you could attach a tack line to? Anchor sprit?

YES!!!!

you get it. This is exactly how I’m thinking. Just like the rest of the boat I want to avoid specialized items wherever possible. I would like to set this up with the pad eyes, etc. Practical, practical, practical. also things that you can replace easily with off the shelf items anywhere you go in the world.

this has been the philosophy of the entire build other than the structural things that you can’t do that with.

Was thinking of doing just like in the rigging doctor link.

what an interesting idea for a large batten at the foot of the sail. I wonder also, if they make a telescoping carbon fiber boom that has a ring that you can attach around the forestay. it’s not set back 10%, but it would do the trick and be easily stowable when not needed for self tacking. I am sure something like this probably exists. outside of the marine world.

also you are correct. It is like your boat.

The plans show a 100%, high aspect jib that is self tacking, on the furler, attached to the bow beam.

Then, a bowsprit with a second furler on it to house another sail.

answering your question, yes. I am sure I have attachment points in the center (on the bow beam ahead of the furler) that I can use for the spinnaker.

Those anchor roller cages are very large and oversize. i could clip to those. also on centerline are tangs the forestay is attached to. Lastly, a strip around the beam would work too, i think.

I’ll take a pic of the bow area right now before the storm hits

[Chotu]

pics of the bow beam area….

excuse the mess. just adjusted anchor rode for large fetch, high wind storm starting in a few hours. rain will clean that up

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by geoleo

No jib in the world will be good at tacking upwind with 20% rolled up!

oh yeah…. True. I was kind of thinking just about the practicality and I had forgotten about the fact that when it was rolled up, that’s when it would be used at its tightest sheeting tacking upwind.

I think that definitely torpedoes my initial idea.

probably just have to stick to the 100% blade jib as it is called in the plans. High aspect.

that will work much better tacking up wind in self tacking mode. Way better than a jib with a giant cylinder of rolled up sail at the leading edge.

[MicHughV]

A self tacking jib usually requires a track of some sorts, which must be curved to allow for the radius movement of the jib.
An alternate might be to have a small boom under the sail, the control lines of which can be led to a padeye.
Or the so -called Hoyt self tacking boom.
Some options to consider.

My C&C Landfall had a tracked staysail jib on a removable inner forestay. I did not use it often, unless I was in some or other race. The sail area will be small, tall and narrow, useful only under specific conditions.

[s/v Jedi]

For starters, I would just lash a big ring to the beam just next to the furler attachment. I got “recovery rings” from Amazon for this kind of use.

Check out “wishbone jib” or “wishbone boom” in Google images.

Try to keep it as simple as you can… much better to add later than to remove later.

You already have a jib?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

For starters, I would just lash a big ring to the beam just next to the furler attachment. I got “recovery rings” from Amazon for this kind of use.

Check out “wishbone jib” or “wishbone boom” in Google images.

Try to keep it as simple as you can… much better to add later than to remove later.

You already have a jib?

You completely understand the philosophy i’m working with here.

Yes, i already have a 100% jib. The main and jib came with the rig and they are in nearly new condition. Sent them off to the sailmaker for seasonal work and any patching or reinforcing and there was basically nothing to do except a touch of stitching for UV. They are stiff and crisp.

[Stu Jackson]

I looked but couldn't find any photos from my #15 sorry.

But given the bent of this conversation since then, I agree with jedi: KISS.

And everything I've ever heard about jib booms is worse than jib tracks! Especially if you have ankles.


Have a good day.

[malbert73]

My 2 cents mirror others. Self tacking is for daysailors not cruisers. Tacking a few times is not that difficult. I’d imagine most cruisers aren’t short tacking up channels etc..
I guess since you already have a 100% you can see if its enough power and easy to upsize if you want more, without worrying about the self-tacking functionality

IMO a single all around headsail is the best. I’m replacing my headsail this winter and am sticking with a 135% which over 9 years and more than 10K miles is perfectly fine. Rolls up ok in heavier breeze up to 30-35, but in lighter air can still carry the boat in deeper reaches until I fly a spinnaker.
Most significantly, in good breeze can just fly the genoa if desired.
Not sure the catamaran analogue but start simple for certain until you sail the boat and see what really is needed