Chotu's Advanced Running Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

Sorry that wasn't clear. Each end of a line attaches to the boom end. The lines then run out to the outer hull sides where a block is attached on the rail. The line then runs back to your mainsheet area to a winch and cleat. Since only the lee side is tensioned one winch is plenty all the main controls are in one place for easy handling. Again, tieing both ends to the boom make it continuous but it could be 2 separate lines I you want.

I’m an engineer so my mind wants everything clear in detail

On your drawing, there are two lines. Each line is attached to the end of the boom, then goes through a block on the rail and on over deck to the centerline where one line is belayed on a cleat and the other on a winch.
Do I have it correct now?

What if you only take one line with both ends tied to the boom and going through those two blocks, with nothing holding it in the middle. Wouldn’t adjusting the length of the line determine how much the boom is pulled down?

I’m thinking about the traveler I had on my Laser dinghy.

[Cavalier MK2]

Connect the dots ha ha. Next time I'll make sure to connect my ends and leave a nice coil. The center was left out for clarity of the mainsheet, remember it is a 2 second sketch. And no... One line would be over neither the winch or the cleat, the windward side is left slack. If a tight continuous line is used you could never introduce twist, this is necessary to adjust for different wind and sea states. Power up, power down? The best thing is it is not expensive compared to track installations to try things out .

[Cavalier MK2]

Of course you could use the windward preventer to pull the boom over the center line, this might be warranted in certain light air conditions.

[s/v Jedi]

Okay, I get it now. On the Laser, I could adjust the traveler, loosening or tightening this loop, but the forces on a bigger boat would be too high I think.

For a multihull this is interesting, for a monohull I think a vang is better suited.

[Chotu]

I definitely need to do some variation of this stuff. But the exact variation? Still not sure.

it would, however, be pretty cool to have the foresail and the main working the same way with this.

The KISS factor is huge. Also, repairs and jury rigs so easy in the most remote locations. Nothing could stop a boat rigged this way.

I might be using fancy rope for the lines, but if all hell broke loose in the middle of nowhere, any rope of sufficient size could make the boat complete sail-able.

This approach fits soooo well with the KISS/off the shelf philosophy of the whole boat

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Okay, I get it now. On the Laser, I could adjust the traveler, loosening or tightening this loop, but the forces on a bigger boat would be too high I think.

For a multihull this is interesting, for a monohull I think a vang is better suited.

What makes it work on a multi is the wide beam to get a useful preventer effect. On a Monohull you would have to have more of a mid boom attach point to get comparable travel. Might be worth a try,.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

What makes it work on a multi is the wide beam to get a useful preventer effect. On a Monohull you would have to have more of a mid boom attach point to get comparable travel. Might be worth a try,.

yes, the preventer effect is kind of interesting also. Just an added bonus.

if some very strange gust comes from a different direction, it can only really snap so far and definitely not even to centerline.

it does add extra lines for my sail control table, but hey, it’s not complicated enough. I want people to look at that thing and really feel confused ha ha

they can come in and take a look at it and be in awe of how it could possibly work. lol

on a serious note about it, with my line stoppers, I can set the center line sheet wherever it needs to be, lock it off, and then grab the downhaul/preventer line and work with that until things seem right, then lock that off. this would be the case for when the boom is let way out..

more often than not it’s probably going to be sheeted in more tightly because the boat will have a lot of apparent wind from the bow. it should be moving along at a good clip.

in the case where it is sheeted in more tightly, those downhaul lines won’t work. they will hit the roof.

so what is best for that position? The single center sheet? Or still two of them on the points above the columns?

Not sure.

[Chotu]

or cut in access slots into the roof so the downhauls don’t hit?

Kind of feels cheesy doing that. Like a hack. Not well though out.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

or cut in access slots into the roof so the downhauls don’t hit?

Kind of feels cheesy doing that. Like a hack. Not well though out.

You could do that, but if you can avoid needing to use the downhauls too close to the centerline, that avoids the issue without the chafe and snagging risks of adding slots.

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Again not a cat person but prior racer- and since the boat/rig/setup is new, wouldn't two fixed jib sheet leads allow you to barber-haul (windward sheet) like we used to do on 420s to go upwind when I raced?

I love it - ex 420 racer here too. I sheet my storm jib this way. I was going to use special jib leads to get 12 degrees sheeting angle but within a minute of the first sail I just pulled the windward sheet on to pull it from abiut 16 degrees to 12. It works so well. In a big wind my wife eases the leeward sheet off slowly whilst I pull the new leeward sheet on as we tack. The jib never even flaps - just goes across like a board.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

You could do that, but if you can avoid needing to use the downhauls too close to the centerline, that avoids the issue without the chafe and snagging risks of adding slots.

True. very true. just brainstorming. I don’t think cutting the slots is a smart idea. It’s going to look stupid.

I mean, how much do I need a downhaul near the center line? That’s what I’m not sure of.

is the downward pull from the center sheet good enough?

or should I use a pair of blocks on those strong points and use those as a sheet/downhaul combo? then put the outer downhauls into play if the boom is way out there?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

I love it - ex 420 racer here too. I sheet my storm jib this way. I was going to use special jib leads to get 12 degrees sheeting angle but within a minute of the first sail I just pulled the windward sheet on to pull it from abiut 16 degrees to 12. It works so well. In a big wind my wife eases the leeward sheet off slowly whilst I pull the new leeward sheet on as we tack. The jib never even flaps - just goes across like a board.

You use a storm jib for upwind sailing?!

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by Chotu

True. very true. just brainstorming. I don’t think cutting the slots is a smart idea. It’s going to look stupid.

I mean, how much do I need a downhaul near the center line? That’s what I’m not sure of.

is the downward pull from the center sheet good enough?

or should I use a pair of blocks on those strong points and use those as a sheet/downhaul combo? then put the outer downhauls into play if the boom is way out there?

You need to get out and try a few things. The center only works but the preventer flattens it further. You might even try using the one sheet jib system I showed on the main boom and put the blocks on the pillars. I'm going to stick to general ideas, for sure you can rig some things temporarily at anchor to see how things work out.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

You need to get out and try a few things. The center only works but the preventer flattens it further. You might even try using the one sheet jib system I showed on the main boom and put the blocks on the pillars. I'm going to stick to general ideas, for sure you can rig some things temporarily at anchor to see how things work out.

Good Point. I can rig them with random rope from various points and just see the geometry

however, no chance in hell am I doing this when it is snowing. Lol

I will wait for a nice warm day. Relatively speaking.

I will attend to different work while it is cold out and maybe start drawing out some of the other plans for control lines

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

True. very true. just brainstorming. I don’t think cutting the slots is a smart idea. It’s going to look stupid.

I mean, how much do I need a downhaul near the center line? That’s what I’m not sure of.

is the downward pull from the center sheet good enough?

or should I use a pair of blocks on those strong points and use those as a sheet/downhaul combo? then put the outer downhauls into play if the boom is way out there?

Using just the center sheet near the centerline won't be optimal, but it's not a big loss. Going to a double mainsheet or a short traveler and then the downhauls for when you get the boom further out will give you more control, but more complexity.