Coast Guard advice for all Cat Sailors

[admiralslater]

It probably would not have made any difference but how do people feel about the fact that the skipper laid off to furl the headsail. I know this is taught but it makes me uncomfortable. Perhaps it would be ok if a possible squall is not the reason for dousing

[Jim Cate]

I myself have never understood why you as a dyed in the wool monohull sailor frequents the Multihull forum. I guess its one of lifes little mysteries.

Why do I frequent the multihull forum??? Because despite owning monohulls I maintain an interest in multis, and a lot of other forms of marine things, floating or not. I have now spent nearly half my long life afloat full time, and I have a healthy curiosity about boats of all sorts and an admiration for many varieties.

As far as I know, owning or yearning for a multihull is not a requirement for pursuing this forum or commenting therein. If it was, would YOU be eligible? You hide behind a screen name and refuse to tell us of your background and boat ownership. At least I am up front about who I am, where I am and what kinda boat I sail... even though it is a monohull.

Re the capsized cat pix... yes, a few useful posts were generated in this thread. I find it believable that similar results could have been obtained without the photo, but I admit that I could be wrong here... it is just that you seem to post such views so frequently and exclusively, and that they invariably stir up contention. This is part of the definition of trolling I believe, and not a nice practice.

So, perhaps that clears up your "life mystery" a bit, perhaps not...

Jim

[44'cruisingcat]

Good post Jim!

I'm very interested to know what type(s) of multihull Seaslug has owned. (If any)

What he says seems to be somewhat contradictory. A boat that was slow, uncomfortable, had daggerboards but also didn't, had zero windward ability, yet seemed to constantly teeter on the brink of capsize.

Strange.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

It probably would not have made any difference but how do people feel about the fact that the skipper laid off to furl the headsail. I know this is taught but it makes me uncomfortable. Perhaps it would be ok if a possible squall is not the reason for dousing

It's not something we ever do. Usually we'll be pretty close to the wind when we furl, since were usually sailing into an anchorage. We just furl when we want to, irrespective of wind direction.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Who's saying a gust would roll you over? But if hatches are open, rolling to around 90degrees or less could sink a boat. It's happened, more than once.

The point is, when it does happen it's not seen as an opportunity to condemn a whole category of sailboats.

But should a multi capsize, regardless of the circumstances, the usual suspects are in here, posting the usual rubbish.

I don’t know about all boats, but it’s going to take a roll of close to 90 degrees to submerge my port lights or hatches.
My port lights are not in the hull, but in the cabin top as are the hatches.
Besides the obvious fact that my port lights and hatches will be closed in any approaching inclimate weather.

I was knocked down, stupidly with full sails up. Nothing reefed in winds of 50+ kts, I saw 50+ as that was the highest I saw as we were being knocked down, I only looked once I think.
Anyway that was high enough winds to completely put my Genoa in the water, at that point of course you only have the main catching air still, and the boat rounded up herself pretty quickly.
That was a sudden gust, very similar and very likely a micro burst. It was short lived, came on rapidly and dissipated rapidly.

Anyway I don’t think a higher wind velocity would have done much more, once your sail is in the water, wind isn’t going to do much, and she pretty quickly rounded up and was headed into the wind and stood back up.
Now I’d love to say my superior seamanship saved the day, but in truth I was overwhelmed, in over my head and the boat took care of herself.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t know about all boats, but it’s going to take a roll of close to 90 degrees to submerge my port lights or hatches.
My port lights are not in the hull, but in the cabin top as are the hatches.
Besides the obvious fact that my port lights and hatches will be closed in any approaching inclimate weather.

I was knocked down, stupidly with full sails up. Nothing reefed in winds of 50+ kts, I saw 50+ as that was the highest I saw as we were being knocked down, I only looked once I think.
Anyway that was high enough winds to completely put my Genoa in the water, at that point of course you only have the main catching air still, and the boat rounded up herself pretty quickly.
That was a sudden gust, very similar and very likely a micro burst. It was short lived, came on rapidly and dissipated rapidly.

Anyway I don’t think a higher wind velocity would have done much more, once your sail is in the water, wind isn’t going to do much, and she pretty quickly rounded up and was headed into the wind and stood back up.
Now I’d love to say my superior seamanship saved the day, but in truth I was overwhelmed, in over my head and the boat took care of herself.

Exactly. Your boat didn’t sink. Sounds like same thing happened to the PDQ and it capsized.

Not making any conjecture here nor saying mono or multi is better. Both are better- in their own respective ways. And both are worse- in own respective ways.

For all of the ways cats are better- and there are a lot- the fact remains that cats are more vulnerable to sudden squall/wind burst than mono’s.

[smj]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Exactly. Your boat didn’t sink. Sounds like same thing happened to the PDQ and it capsized.

Not making any conjecture here nor saying mono or multi is better. Both are better- in their own respective ways. And both are worse- in own respective ways.

For all of the ways cats are better- and there are a lot- the fact remains that cats are more vulnerable to sudden squall/wind burst than mono’s.

In the early 90’s we were anchored out when a storm hit. The initial winds were 80-90 when the squall line came through. The monohulls were knocked down flat under bare poles and we on our very narrow beamed older designed cat turned into the wind and all was fine. Does this mean in survival conditions under bare poles the catamaran is much more stable?

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by smj

In the early 90’s we were anchored out when a storm hit. The initial winds were 80-90 when the squall line came through. The monohulls were knocked down flat under bare poles and we on our very narrow beamed older designed cat turned into the wind and all was fine. Does this mean in survival conditions under bare poles the catamaran is much more stable?

There was a Prout Snowgoose Elite 37 foot catamaran flipped at anchor in Greece. Obviously a very rare event, but do not underestimate the power of the wind even with no sail up.

[jmh2002]

I'm not anti-catamaran so don't shoot the messenger, but here is another reminder of what microburst type weather can do (both catamaran and monohull examples in the links).

These boats weren't even sailing, they were tied to the dock.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...do-222317.html

This is the best version of the CCTV video from that thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=1mofa0QNFi8

[manitu]

I'll try to return to the post title about flotation devices, even though I know it is futile.
In less than 2 posts, I guess the boat bashing and penis measuring will continue.

I keep self inflating life jackets on deck, but in the cabins I have inflatable jackets without the gas cartridge. You know, you can even buy them like that. And this is on a monohull.

.manitu

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

I'm not anti-catamaran so don't shoot the messenger, but here is another reminder of what microburst type weather can do (both catamaran and monohull examples in the links).

These boats weren't even sailing, they were tied to the dock.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...do-222317.html

This is the best version of the CCTV video from that thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=1mofa0QNFi8

That is unreal, the cat was thrown like a toy, I've never seen anything like that. Phenomenal.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by manitu

I'll try to return to the post title about flotation devices, even though I know it is futile.
In less than 2 posts, I guess the boat bashing and penis measuring will continue.

I keep self inflating life jackets on deck, but in the cabins I have inflatable jackets without the gas cartridge. You know, you can even buy them like that. And this is on a monohull.

.manitu

You can even get them with cartridges that only manually inflate too.

In our dunker training in Jacksonville NAS, they beat into our heads to never, ever inflate you waterwings until you are absolutely sure your clear of the aircraft.
Apparently at least a few aircrew inflated theirs and were trapped in the aircraft and drowned.
For that reason they were manual inflation only, with the tube to orally inflate as a back up.

[a64pilot]

ALL boats regardless of number of hulls and regardless of whether they are unsinkable or not can be sunk or rendered at lest into trash if the weather is bad enough, just like there is no airplane made that can safely fly into a thunderstorm, you can cargo aircraft into a Hurricane, but even fighter jets have been torn to pieces in a thunderstorm.
Some weather simply isn’t survivable, you do the best you can with what you have. Sometimes in the same storm better boats are sunk and lesser ones survive, regardless of if they are wood, steel or fiberglass or how many hula they have.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by smj

In the early 90’s we were anchored out when a storm hit. The initial winds were 80-90 when the squall line came through. The monohulls were knocked down flat under bare poles and we on our very narrow beamed older designed cat turned into the wind and all was fine. Does this mean in survival conditions under bare poles the catamaran is much more stable?

Could be, and maybe, just maybe being a narrow Cat was an advantage then, maybe a newer lighter, wider Cat may not have fared so well?

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

As far as I know, owning or yearning for a multihull is not a requirement for pursuing this forum or commenting therein. If it was, would YOU be eligible? You hide behind a screen name and refuse to tell us of your background and boat ownership.



Jim

Jim, Thank you for your contribution.
That clears things up.
No disrespect was intended.

Why you ask.

Having gone through the experience on another forum, where an account was opened for me by a friend while I was ill, and taking a forced break from our cruising, to give me an interest.

One of the moderators used the information provided , and supplied it to other members, to threaten, harass and stalk , until said email account etc were closed and the SCUMBAG tired of his exploits..

This was very stressful , as you can appreciate.

The Scumbag still actively posts.

I never want this to happen again.

So will remain guarded .
I have found Cruisers Forum Moderation to be mostly excellent.

Cruisers Forum has been a great resource and continues to be.

I am sure you would recognise me should our paths cross again. Last time we chatted we were in Coffs Harbour many years ago ,when cats weren't quite so common. From memory you were moored to the collectors jetty.

Regards
Sluggo