Coast Guard advice for all Cat Sailors

[Factor]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Could be, and maybe, just maybe being a narrow Cat was an advantage then, maybe a newer lighter, wider Cat may not have fared so well?

Narrower better than wider? all other things being equal, eg sail area etc, I am at a loss to understand the physics of that assertion

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by smj

In the early 90’s we were anchored out when a storm hit. The initial winds were 80-90 when the squall line came through. The monohulls were knocked down flat under bare poles and we on our very narrow beamed older designed cat turned into the wind and all was fine. Does this mean in survival conditions under bare poles the catamaran is much more stable?

I don’t know. Probably with no sails up it would be much nicer not to heel. So yes score that for cats.

My concern was really in the sails up experience. And I am affected by the Atlantic 57 capsize a couple of years ago near the gulf stream at night in unsettled but generally benign conditions- having sailed on that boat prior and admiring it greatly. They got caught by a microburst at night which was quick and capsized an amazing yacht in seconds.
Hearing the firsthand report on that it made me realize it really wasn’t preventable- was so sudden. those with good knowledge of that event know that a well prepped monohull of similar size would have been heeled over and maybe suffered sail damage, and not much more.

[smj]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I don’t know. Probably with no sails up it would be much nicer not to heel. So yes score that for cats.

My concern was really in the sails up experience. And I am affected by the Atlantic 57 capsize a couple of years ago near the gulf stream at night in unsettled but generally benign conditions- having sailed on that boat prior and admiring it greatly. They got caught by a microburst at night which was quick and capsized an amazing yacht in seconds.
Hearing the firsthand report on that it made me realize it really wasn’t preventable- was so sudden. those with good knowledge of that event know that a well prepped monohull of similar size would have been heeled over and maybe suffered sail damage, and not much more.

If I recall correctly the crew thought it was a tornado that capsized the Atlantic, and let’s face it, the Atlantic is a powered up performance catamaran not a mom and pop cruiser.
There are plenty of stories of well respected bluewater monohulls that have come to some form of disaster while catamarans in the same storm survived unscathed.
Some catamarans are more seaworthy than others and the same holds true for monohulls. I once again will state that statistically the risk of flipping a catamaran is about equal to the risk of sinking a monohull so pick your poison and enjoy the ride.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by smj

Some catamarans are more seaworthy than others and the same holds true for monohulls. I once again will state that statistically the risk of flipping a catamaran is about equal to the risk of sinking a monohull so pick your poison and enjoy the ride.

Agree completely. Sinking scares me less than flipping right now with young kids aboard. When I’m older I’ll probably get a cat.

[s/v Jedi]

It’s hard to say what it is; once they flip, they all look the same.

[smj]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It’s hard to say what it is; once they flip, they all look the same.

To the uneducated. The beauty of a flipped multi compared to a sunk mono is it gives the educated a chance to discuss and learn, also gives the uneducated CF trolls a chance to........

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by smj

To the uneducated. The beauty of a flipped multi compared to a sunk mono is it gives the educated a chance to discuss and learn, also gives the uneducated CF trolls a chance to........

To the uneducated. The educated know that while the wind can flip a cat, the wind can’t flip nor sink a mono.

Edit: your words “the beauty of a flipped multi” made me realize that they do look better flipped

[smj]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

To the uneducated. The educated know that while the wind can flip a cat, the wind can’t flip nor sink a mono.



Edit: your words “the beauty of a flipped multi” made me realize that they do look better flipped

The wind caused the sinking of the Pride of Baltimore as well as others. We must have different educations.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

I'm not anti-catamaran so don't shoot the messenger, but here is another reminder of what microburst type weather can do (both catamaran and monohull examples in the links).

These boats weren't even sailing, they were tied to the dock.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...do-222317.html

This is the best version of the CCTV video from that thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=1mofa0QNFi8

The one catamaran that flipped had its mainsail partially raised - presumably by wind catching its 2:1 halyard, busting the stack pack zipper, and lifting the main out of the stack pack.

Note that the 40 or so other catamarans at that same dock did not flip or suffer anymore than the several hundred monohulls in the rest of the marina. Though of course microbursts are very localised.

Photos of the devastated marinas following Cyclone Irma show that neither cats nor monos can withstand hurricane strength wind and sea surges when moored.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

To the uneducated. The educated know that while the wind can flip a cat, the wind can’t flip nor sink a mono.

Edit: your words “the beauty of a flipped multi” made me realize that they do look better flipped

Did someone say troll?

So educate us, exactly how many hulls did "Bertie" have when it got rolled and sunk by wind?

[malbert73]

Ok pride of Baltimore and Bertie are the only two which keep getting cited.
They were both wooden, internally ballasted replica of vessels of another era. It’s almost like my saying that catamarans break apart and sink at sea because of this

[smj]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Ok pride of Baltimore and Bertie are the only two which keep getting cited.
They were both wooden, internally ballasted replica of vessels of another era. It’s almost like my saying that catamarans break apart and sink at sea because of this
Attachment 200558

Looks like 8% of the sinking’s while underway are caused by knockdowns/srorms.
https://auburnpub.com/lifestyles/rea...b54a3860e.html
Another wind induced sinking.
http://towndock.net/news/sailboat-sinks-off-oriental
http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapport.../m10f0003.html

[s/v Jedi]

Sorry guys, there are many things that can sink a modern monohull, but the wind isn’t in that list. The wind can’t capsize a monohull and thus can’t sink it.

It’s silly to fool yourselves, shake it off. Reefs, rocks, submerged containers, wales etc. etc. so many things to talk about that sink mono’s but just accept that the wind is the monohull’s friend and the multi’s foe

[44'cruisingcat]

You're right. Fooling youself is silly. Try learning a bit more.

[smj]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Sorry guys, there are many things that can sink a modern monohull, but the wind isn’t in that list. The wind can’t capsize a monohull and thus can’t sink it.

It’s silly to fool yourselves, shake it off. Reefs, rocks, submerged containers, wales etc. etc. so many things to talk about that sink mono’s but just accept that the wind is the monohull’s friend and the multi’s foe

Yes and the earths flat and most monohull tragedies occur when they fall over the edge. Also the articles posted about the wind induced sinkings, all fake news, has to be.