Coast Guard advice for all Cat Sailors

[HabibiDah]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

That would be a great resource.

Of course...you can always read the accident reports from the NTSB on the accidents that they cover.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...es/marine.aspx

[thinwater]

I've sailed PDQs a good bit and owned a PDQ 32 (stretched to 34) for 15 years. It is still in my avitar (with smaller working jib set).

We don't know what sails were set on the 36, but if everything is in tight, the boat will start to fly a hull on a very tight reach at about 27-32 knots true, depending on how overloaded it is. With 8 people, and the LRC is heavier, I would say it would take 35 knots. The 32 will get light at about 25 knots true if trimmed very tight. But reefing should have started much earlier and only a very inexperience helmsman would not feather in such conditions. A 40-knot squall should not be an issue if you pay attention.

The notion that a "safe" design must be able to sail in 40 knots without reefing explains why charter yachts and most of the condo cats I've seen were both slow and not weatherly. My 32-foot cat would leave 45- to 50-foot lagoons and similar as though they were dragging something, out pointing them at the same time. It was almost funny. And sad.

I hate under canvased boats. That's what experience and reefing is for. My PDQ sailed very nicely in strong winds, if you had the sense to throw in a reef. Seamanship and small cat experience are key.

[refuge]

A multi-hull just flipped in Lake Erie last week. Something like 8 people were found sitting on the upside down boat. Luckily only minor injuries.

It went over so fast nobody had a second to think. One lady’s cell phone still worked and she was able to email an SOS to a friend. Happened off Sandusky.

[Lihuedooley77]

Hmmm,,,,

My questions would also involve why ? What was the cause of the capsize ?

Avoid surprises :

1. Getting and paying attention to the weather forecast, and check the marine weather channel feq, every so often. Also, look at the wind direction and speeds, any changes in strength or direction. Good plan is also , and also read the cloud cover situation and types of clouds.

2. If 40 kts of wind forecast, were they reefed down with a small jib ?

3. What is the true experience of the skipper, his knowledge of seaman ship ?.
We seldom see catamarans with sticks actually sailing, especially to windward.
We do see them on auto pilot / gps . Is this all cat drivers, of course not, but it is
the majority.

Also, our experience is ocean, and not lake sailing, but on lakes , it would seem
that if there were mountains or valleys or venturi wind areas between tall buildings,
that much stronger gusts could surprise the skipper. And WHAM, no one ready to
Cut ( release) the main sheet and let it run free, and immediately reduce the rapidly
increasing heel .and prevent a capsize.

4. Life Jackets : If we are sailing into rough weather or strong winds, everyone
puts on a life jacket. No exceptions These are mono hulls. No cat experience.

S.O.P Without fail , every one board, knows where the life jackets are ,and as skipper I show them how to put on the PFD's, and show them where they are stowed. Normally, good weather, we do not require anyone to put on a life jacket, But sometimes a passenger is not familiar with sailing or the ocean, and feels better wearing a life jacket ' and that is perfectly OK. It is also OK for the skipper to require passengers or crew to wear life jackets.

Also, we take at least one life jacket and secure it to the stern pulpit with a slip knot.
Quick access and release to toss to anyone that has gone overboard. We also have
The horseshoe man overboard pole rig and and line, located on the stern as well.

I also train people, that if anyone does go over board, One person points at the victim and do not take your eyes off of them, and we get a PFD to them ASAP.

Also, I prefer the quick stop MOB method, that is coming about, and heave to, stop the vessel in the vicinity of the MOB. Very simple and easy.

That all being said, in 35 years as a professional licence Capt, I have never had
Anyone overboard. Nor have I ever capsized a mono hull keel boat, or even seen one
capsize. Do not want to, as that can be a very , very serious situation.

However. if in any kind of seaway, it could be very problematic hauling anyone who is 140 pounds plus back up on a high freeboard, without swim ladders or similar rigs. As to climbing up the stern swim step in a sea way, the stern bounding up and down and slapping hard into the rough ocean, bad ju-ju, just something else to consider.

Also, as to hauling a person in a life jacket on board. If possible to grab on to the life jacket, grab on to the front shoulder area of the life jacket and fall backwards, You
should be able to haul them on board. Works for white water rafting and vessels with
low free board.

The main thing is not to lose some one overboard, or capsize in the first place. monohull or catamaran. Let's keep everyone alive and well, and bring the boat back to the dock, with all of the people we started with, and the vessel floating upright.

.

[Luff Shack]

I am a good friend of the owner of this boat. The name of the boat is Exit Strategy.
I have sailed on it countless times over the years having also assisted with the final delivery leg from Buffalo, New York to Lorain, Ohio when it was originally moved on it's own bottom from the mid-Atlantic coast to the south shore of Lake Erie.

After the capsize, I also helped the owner make recovery arrangements.

Capsize occurred around 1700 hours on 9/11.
Boat drifted from Wednesday afternoon 9/11/19 until Friday afternoon 9/13/19 before being towed into Lorain Harbor for righting and haul-out.
During those two days, the boat drifted into shallow water and the rig started to hit bottom, ultimately causing the deck-stepped mast to go out of column.
The owner spoke by cell phone with the towboat on scene the evening of the capsize and asked him to fit a flashing beacon and anchor the wreck to keep it in deep water as we were hoping to keep the rig and sails intact.
Towboat operator elected not to act on the request.

The capsized boat is a PDQ 36 LRC
8 people were aboard at the time of the capsize.
Capsize occurred about 5 miles north of Lorain, Ohio harbor .
Boat was based out of (Spitzer) Lakeside Marina in Lorain, Ohio.

Conditions at time of capsize:
Boat was sailing on a close reach, port tack. Light winds, 5-7 knots sailing speed.
Weather started to change, storm approaching from NW.
Owner asked people on forward tramps to make their way into the cockpit, go below to stay out of weather if it started to rain.
Sheets were eased to change course to sail off the wind on a broad reach, both engines were started and put in gear in preparation of jib furling and lowering the mainsail.
All of the sudden, boat was hit by an extreme wind (microburst?).
Boat went over without hesitation, owner says it happened in seconds.
Owner said he tumbled along the inside of the hardtop and into the water.

He then swam over to assist two passengers back to inverted hulls and onto bridge deck using the steering connecting rod as a step.
Once they were back aboard, he then started knocking on the hulls to contact the 5 people who were still in the boat.
They were told to swim out ASAP, one at a time.
3 came out without assistance, the owner had to go back under the boat to help the remaining 2 passengers.
Owner says if they were wearing PFDs,while trapped in the overturned hulls, they would have had difficulty swimming down and out from under the boat.

My observations. The PDQ 36 LRC version is at least 1500 lbs. heavier than the original boat due to dual diesel inboard/saildrives, fiberglass hardtop, stern rail bench seat etc.
Boat was also equipped with a diesel generator, AC, refrigeration, r/o water maker, all contributing to a higher final displacement.
The underside of bridge deck was awash when inverted, so hull escape hatches (if fitted)would have down flooded the hulls.

The hardtop support columns and the full width bench/davit weldment alcross the stern of the bridge deck were barriers to people trying to swim out from under the boat.

Almost all of the of structural/cosmetic damage to the boat occurred during salvage efforts to turn the boat over.
All standing rigging hardware and chain plates remained intact .

Myself and several friends finished pumping out the boat Saturday morning and recovered personal effects as we worked to remove all of the waterlogged upholstery, plywood/foam backed vinyl hull and ceiling liners in preparation for haul-out

Boat was lifted out for salvage survey two days ago.

Again, wearing PFD's prior to capsize would have compromised escape efforts from inside the hulls.
Design-wise, an on-(bridge)deck PFD locker that is accessible from the underside when capsized would have helped once everyone made it to the semi-submerged bridge deck.

S.V Luff Shack
Corbin 39 #145

[catsketcher]

Thank you very much Luff Shack

[conchaway]

I hope i don't get castigated for saying, as the country song says, " I told you so".

[Shaneesprit]

I sail a CAT model never to of known to of flipped and by Patterson, non of his CAT designs has ever flipped,
Personally I think your more likely to end up in the water from a monohull, I can put my cup of tea down on the deck at 8 Ktn and it won’t even slide off, so why am I more likely to get wet?

[thinwater]

Good report.

NEVER underestimate a squall. Certain areas are well know for nasty ones, and the Great Lakes and Chesapeake Bay are two of them. If anything, I am consistently guilty of taking all sail down early. Most of the time it is an over reaction, but I don't mind.

I'll sail HARD in steady wind, but there's no fun in sailing around microbursts. Better to just motor for a while. In this case, there is no way of knowing what the peak wind speed may have been.


I will add that the PDQ has keels too far forward (you can see that in the image) because it was designed for drying out (I actually moved mine aft). It also has small rudders. Thus, in a hard gust, particularly if the transom began to lift and the boat was moving slowly, he would have had no ability to bear away. It probably rounded up.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

I sail a CAT model never to of known to of flipped and by Patterson, non of his CAT designs has ever flipped,

Personally I think your more likely to end up in the water from a monohull, I can put my cup of tea down on the deck at 8 Ktn and it won’t even slide off, so why am I more likely to get wet?

Patterson designed the Heavenly Twins and at least one has flipped

[Zzmeyer]

Was at a boat show yesterday and ran into a woman who said she'd never own a catamaran. I thought she might say, they are ugly, they don't sail to weather, you can't get a slip - all which are true. No, she dreaded the thought that they "all pitch pole". Then she drove home on the 405 through LA. Sure hope she made it home safely.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by refuge

A multi-hull just flipped in Lake Erie last week. Something like 8 people were found sitting on the upside down boat. Luckily only minor injuries.

It went over so fast nobody had a second to think. One lady’s cell phone still worked and she was able to email an SOS to a friend. Happened off Sandusky.

Did you look at the first post in this thread?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

thought she might say, they are ugly,

Beauty - eye of the beholder and all that

they don't sail to weather,

No that is just rubbish - Some can some cant just like monos. I have pushed Benetau First series boats to tack when they were the windward boat on a Pescott amongst a number of others. On many a Seawind I have sailed just as high and fast as similar crusing monos.

you can't get a slip -

Yeah, beggared if know where they are all parked.

all which are true

. Nope

[Sailmon]

We now live in Cleveland during the summer... Cruise in the winter. This was a severe squall that came out of nowhere. Not sure about Lorain (West of Cleveland) but when the storm came ashore on east side of Cleveland, we experienced a microburst with winds between 70 and 90 mph. Numerous trees down, 40,000 without power. Our power was out for 4 days. Regarding ”text/email only”, you can now get a decent phone signal on the lake for several miles off the shore. Moving further off shore, you can continue to get a degraded signal permitting text and email, but not voice communication. As a relatively shallow lake, Lake Erie is also notorious for quickly kicking up in a blow. 6’ square faced waves with a 2 to 3 second period are not uncommon in a storm. I can recall occasions when our 38’ sailboat would be up on 2 waves at once.

[refuge]

Originally Posted by StuM

Did you look at the first post in this thread?

Sure I did. This is another thread about cats capsizing during normal winds. There is no point in distracting from that. Lets be honest here, if a mono flipped in either scenario it would have righted itself.

Being vague about it doesn’t convince anyone. Everyone knows at this point cats require an experienced hand.

The key is prevention. Why hasn’t a rig manufacturer capitalized on the option of a turtle preventer for catamarans? Seems fairly easy. Certain inclination and dump the main sheet? Would be wise for mono’s too. It’s about being safe while we have fun.