Coast Guard advice for all Cat Sailors

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

The next advice from SeaSlug is going to be for all cat sailors to carry a can opener.

It should be attached to your pfd, next to the light and whistle

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

One would assume that any mono sailboat that can be rolled and sunk with just wind, would be unseaworthy.

Really? Because if deck hatches or the companionway is open, that applies to a great many monohulls.

And a microburst can happen on a sunny day.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I dont believe there's double standards by the majority, I dont see it, I feel its a minority that say stupid things regarding multihulls.

And regarding cat owners having better manners, I certainly dont see that, some monohull owners have very bad manners but so do some cat owners, that's a people thing. Many monohull owners not only like cats but want one.

Maybe some are a tad to sensitive and have a confirmation bias happening, see what they want to see or focus to much on the comments made by a minority.

Could you indicate where a multihull owner has posted on a monohull sinking thread, or one about a mono losing it's keel, stating that all monohulls are therefore unseaworthy? I can't remember seeing one.

The fact is, most monohull sinking threads don't run for long. There's hardly any adverse comment. In fact, unless there's loss of life, most monohull sinkings don't even rate a thread. Maybe they're just too commonplace to bother talking about?

Whereas virtually any multihull capsize anywhere on earth whether it happens in a race or a tornado, is immediately gloated over on here.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Really? Because if deck hatches or the companionway is open, that applies to a great many monohulls.

And a microburst can happen on a sunny day.

I hate getting sucked into these silly arguments, but here goes...

I don't believe that any ballasted monohull of conventional design can be rolled by wind action alone. Knocked down, sure, but once at 90 degrees, the wind alone has a pretty hard time rolling the boat further and, being at or near maximum righting moment, it will pop back up shortly after the microburst gust diminishes.

There may be some downflooding if all hatches are open and that ain't nice, but will likely not sink the boat.

In Bertie's case, the ballast apparently left its normal position in the knockdown due to not being properly secured... hardly a conventional design feature in modern boats. (Sometimes the attitude that older designs were MORE seaworthy than new ones is somewhat flawed IMO).

And in terms of seamanship, sailing with all hatches open in a monohull is kinda like sailing a multi with full sail up in strong gusty conditions... perhaps not best practice!

Now lets quit this silly bickering and get back to serious stuff like anchors.

Jim

[44'cruisingcat]

Getting knocked down with hatches open has sunk monohulls.

[smj]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Getting knocked down with hatches open has sunk monohulls.

Sunk the Pride Of Baltimore which was a rather large mono.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by smj

Sunk the Pride Of Baltimore which was a rather large mono.

Not so long ago a bareboat went down too.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Really? Because if deck hatches or the companionway is open, that applies to a great many monohulls.



And a microburst can happen on a sunny day.

I don’t think just a wind burst can take you to 90 or more, put your sails in the water sure, I got stupid and got knocked down, put the Genoa into the water and I was afraid it would fill with water, and of course that could dismast me.
I got stupid because all the classic signs of a squall line were there except lightning and I didn’t pick up on it. It was dark. Moon not up yet.
However it felt like we were laid well over, but when I really think about it, I doubt we were past 60 degrees, and likely not even that maybe. I can take you out in an airplane and dive you at 45 degrees and you will swear we are going straight down.
The Genoa extends well past the side of the boat and will lay in the water way before 90 degrees, and when laid over the wind load is very much minimized so she won’t keep going because I have 10,000 lbs of ballast trying to pull her upright.
Boat took good care of herself, rounded up and stood up all by herself.

I am not beating on any design, all designs have an Achilles heel, if they didn’t only one type of boat would be made.

Just commenting on that I doubt a gust alone would roll me, breaking wave of course all bets are off, but I doubt any kind of wind could roll me.
Mono’s are Weebles, we wobble but don’t fall down

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by smj

Sunk the Pride Of Baltimore which was a rather large mono.

Right! A typical modern ballasted yacht design, much like the ones that we all sail.

I'd guess that all these sunken monohulls that you know about are closely related to all those upside down cats that the cat haters know about.

I'm hull number neutral myself, but can say that I've been knocked flat in a couple of monos and they didn't go beyond 90 degrees and they didn't sink... and one of them was a swing keel trailer sailor... hardly the most seaworthy of designs!

Jim

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Right! A typical modern ballasted yacht design, much like the ones that we all sail.



I'd guess that all these sunken monohulls that you know about are closely related to all those upside down cats that the cat haters know about.



I'm hull number neutral myself, but can say that I've been knocked flat in a couple of monos and they didn't go beyond 90 degrees and they didn't sink... and one of them was a swing keel trailer sailor... hardly the most seaworthy of designs!



Jim

Wow, so about the same strength wind that flipped a 36’ catamaran sank a 136’ monohull that had over 150,000 blue water miles on her, and she was reefed down at the time. She got knocked flat, then rolled over and sank in less than 60 seconds. That overturned floating catamaran looks pretty good to me!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/people....l-26-no-2/amp/

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t think just a wind burst can take you to 90 or more, put your sails in the water sure, I got stupid and got knocked down, put the Genoa into the water and I was afraid it would fill with water, and of course that could dismast me.
I got stupid because all the classic signs of a squall line were there except lightning and I didn’t pick up on it. It was dark. Moon not up yet.
However it felt like we were laid well over, but when I really think about it, I doubt we were past 60 degrees, and likely not even that maybe. I can take you out in an airplane and dive you at 45 degrees and you will swear we are going straight down.
The Genoa extends well past the side of the boat and will lay in the water way before 90 degrees, and when laid over the wind load is very much minimized so she won’t keep going because I have 10,000 lbs of ballast trying to pull her upright.
Boat took good care of herself, rounded up and stood up all by herself.

I am not beating on any design, all designs have an Achilles heel, if they didn’t only one type of boat would be made.

Just commenting on that I doubt a gust alone would roll me, breaking wave of course all bets are off, but I doubt any kind of wind could roll me.
Mono’s are Weebles, we wobble but don’t fall down

Who's saying a gust would roll you over? But if hatches are open, rolling to around 90degrees or less could sink a boat. It's happened, more than once.

The point is, when it does happen it's not seen as an opportunity to condemn a whole category of sailboats.

But should a multi capsize, regardless of the circumstances, the usual suspects are in here, posting the usual rubbish.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

The next advice from SeaSlug is going to be for all cat sailors to carry a can opener.

We do, we carry an ax!

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Who's saying a gust would roll you over? But if hatches are open, rolling to around 90degrees or less could sink a boat. It's happened, more than once.

The point is, when it does happen it's not seen as an opportunity to condemn a whole category of sailboats.

But should a multi capsize, regardless of the circumstances, the usual suspects are in here, posting the usual rubbish.

Is it just visibility of images? Sunk monos generally don’t last on the surface very long, so not likely to have a photo. An inverted multi floats and is available for photos for an extended period of time.

There are legitimate issues to explore with every accident report - that’s how any field of endeavour gets safer and more controlling of risks over time. Like others I just wish these threads didn’t descend into ignorant comments.

[Jim Cate]

Who's saying a gust would roll you over?

Well, YOU appeared to say that in your post 92 above.

And that is what I was responding to. If that isn't what you meant, then let's quit the silly argument. Any rational person knows that any boat can sink in the right set of circumstances. Any boat can be capsized in the right set of circumstances. The odds of any well sailed and maintained vessel, regardless of hull numbers,experiencing either event are very much in favor of survival.

And yes, whenever these subjects arise, the "usual suspects" make the usual comments, and the other set of "usual suspects" feel required to respond in kind... and this perpetual waste of bandwidth ensues.

I wish I was of strong enough character to just not join in!

Jim

[Zzmeyer]

The best part of a cat tipping over is that you can still get good pictures. The monohull sort of just disappears.