Code 55 or 65 Deeper angles

[dwh61]

I am considering a C65 for a 50' Cat. Both Doyle and North claim their product can be used for deeper angles by releasing luff tension and raising clew, perhaps w on w also an option?

Appreciate comments from those that have tried.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by dwh61

I am considering a C65 for a 50' Cat. Both Doyle and North claim their product can be used for deeper angles by releasing luff tension and raising clew, perhaps w on w also an option?



Appreciate comments from those that have tried.

Yes, of course the relatively flat code sail can be used for reaching and for wing and wing - it’s just flatter and possibly smaller than a sail designed for deep reaching and downwind.

Our screecher is built for upwind, but is a bit big and sheets to the outside corners of our sterns so best is AWA 45 - not quite closehauled. If we want to go deeper than 140 AWA then we move the tack to the windward bow and ease the halyard a bit to get it to project to windward of the main. But it is flat - good for moderate winds but not big enough (nor light enough) for light wind deep reaching.

The clew naturally rises with less sheet tension and these sails are generally designed as yankees rather than genoas.

What is the purpose of the sail - that will answer what specialist sail(s) you need. Then you can decide whether to get a less specialist sail that will cover a wider range of wind strengths and angles.

A C65 for a cruising boat already seems to me to be a less specialist sail - not flat enough for close hauled but not so deep as to provide much deeper reaching power in light winds. This would be appropriate if you have an overlapping genoa for lighter winds upwind and a symmetric or asymmetric spinnaker for deep reaching/downwind and want something for in between and stronger winds deep reaching.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Our screecher is built for upwind, but is a bit big and sheets to the outside corners of our sterns so best is AWA 45 - not quite closehauled.

I can't remember is you had posted this in the past or not. That sail is great to achieve that AWA as a screecher. Most flat cut Code 0's aren't spec'ed to to achieve that, or just that. Do you have it on a roller furler? If so, how far above your forestay is the head/halyard of the screecher? Mine essentially exit at the same spot and that has prevented me for doing anything with a new sail / roller furler for fear of it tangling with the roller furled jib.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I can't remember is you had posted this in the past or not. That sail is great to achieve that AWA as a screecher. Most flat cut Code 0's aren't spec'ed to to achieve that, or just that. Do you have it on a roller furler? If so, how far above your forestay is the head/halyard of the screecher? Mine essentially exit at the same spot and that has prevented me for doing anything with a new sail / roller furler for fear of it tangling with the roller furled jib.

Our hounds have a large horizontal plate, to which the screecher halyard is shackles and the end of its 2:1 halyard is shackled. The forestay is attached to a pin across two vertical tangs welded under the horizontal plate. All very close. But since the tack of the screecher is on the end of a 1.6m pole that does create enough separation AFAIK to prevent problems. Our screecher is on a Facnor bottom up furler. With our structural forestay the top swivel is smaller and there is no jib halyard deflector so lots less projecting forward of the forestay, compared to our previous headsail foil and furler.



I’m getting quotes for a new screecher that will be significantly smaller (75sqm vs. 120sqm), flatter, and sheeted inside the shrouds to trim blocks on the aft end of our cabin (where the genoa winches are for sisterships that have overlapping genoas), rather than outside and to the outside stern of each hull. It will be made of Dyneema/carbon laminate rather than Dacron. The goal is to achieve 35-36 degrees apparent wind angle, basically same as with our current blown out jib and main.

We will lose deep reaching capability in lighter winds, but in lighter winds our old symmetric spinnaker will work and in moderate to heavier air the jib is usually all we need (heck, running before 30 knots in 2m wind waves we averaged 12 knots with surfs into low 20s under barber hauled jib alone - the joy of not needing much sail area).

[Palarran]

Thanks for the photo. It's essentially the same as I have. My prodder is only around a meter but would be easy to extend.

Your Outremer is of course always going to sail better than my cat but I'd really like to get a flat cut Code 0 for light wind close reaching. It's simply a problem right now as we have a relatively small self tacking jib. The key in my mind is that the 0 has to sheet inside the shrouds or there isn't any chance it will provide the correct angle and slot between the main. I'm really concerned about the sail getting rolled up in my jib furler though as twice I've had my spin sheet do so. It wasn't tight enough but still, there's only about 4" of clearance at the very top. Again, it look's almost exactly as yours so maybe it's just the pole length.

[dwh61]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Y



A C65 for a cruising boat already seems to me to be a less specialist sail - not flat enough for close hauled but not so deep as to provide much deeper reaching power in light winds. This would be appropriate if you have an overlapping genoa for lighter winds upwind and a symmetric or asymmetric spinnaker for deep reaching/downwind and want something for in between and stronger winds deep reaching.

Current rig has 135 gen, and self tack stay sail. appreciate your comments.

Now i am turning my thoughts to top down or bottom up furling. We are installing sprit, about 3 feet. we have enough room on rig for 2:1 on halyard.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Palarran

spin sheet

Oop's, meant spin halyard :-)

Originally Posted by dwh61

Current rig has 135 gen, and self tack stay sail. appreciate your comments.

Now i am turning my thoughts to top down or bottom up furling. We are installing sprit, about 3 feet. we have enough room on rig for 2:1 on halyard.

Interesting set up. Do you have to furl your Genny to tack?

[dwh61]

Yes, we furl the G, the stay sail is self-tacker which furls, and plan to furl with the the coded sail.

[dwh61]

Originally Posted by fxykty

low 20s under barber hauled jib alone - the joy of not needing much sail area).

love to hear / see photo of your barber setup. assuming all things constant, how many degrees did you gain with barber setup?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by dwh61

love to hear / see photo of your barber setup. assuming all things constant, how many degrees did you gain with barber setup?

Our boat has an aluminium toerail, so it is easy to soft shackle a snatch block to the rail at any point. For deep reaching or (in the example I cited) dead downwind, the snatch block is about 1.5m forward of the athwartship track (total distance from tack to track is 5.0m) and about 3.5m from the centreline. This projects the jib nicely.

If we have our mainsail up we loose the jib at about 145-150 degrees apparent. The barber haul allows us to fly it to windward wing on wing from 150-190 degrees apparent.

Our track is relatively short so from about 90 degrees apparent it’s useful to use the barber haul to tighten the leech.

[dwh61]

Thanks for comments.