Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

[tanre]

Hi all, I thought I would update everyone since you all were so kind to give me advice and insight...plus it keeps me motivated..


After some hard work and new numbers, here is what I have:


This month, we are planning to go see a bunch to narrow down the search. Choices are still Lagoon 380, 400, or 410 or a Fountaine Pajot Athena 38, Lipari 41 or Lavezzi 40. The year of manufacture is still 2000 through 2007. The FP's are winning out due to lower costs.





My price is still at 170k with about 30K for a refit and I have seen some FP's in that range. However, I have added 30k to the sailing kitty...YAY!!! (for any unseen issues)...this is without touching my 401k! So that means I will have a back up and a backup to the backup!



Initially income was planned at $2300/month passively. That has been increased to a range where worse case it will be $2600/mo and best case could get close to $3800/mo, with a hopeful average of around $3100 for 2 people on board. This would depend on vacancy rates and other things.



Plan is to move forward over the next 12 months (shorter if I can do it), but the great news...I decided to give it a whirl even if it doesnt pan out the way it is currently planned. Need to complete a few big ticket items before I head out, ...and that is where the stress comes in...but I see the goal materializing. Thank you all!!!

[rabbi]

We only did a one year trip, and several other trips over several months but to me the updated budget sounds OK, but only if you find a good boat, do a lot of DIY, keep the systems simple and stay on the hook.

If you / your admiral like spending time in marinas this will blow your budget in many areas. You can spend way more than your 200 USD budget on just one night in the Baleares. There are places where a mooring buoy for a small cat costs more than that in August.

But we haven't spent a night in the marina this summer cruising Baleares and Sardinia, so its certainly possible. You need good ground tackle and be prepared for a few shaky / rolly nights.


Same with diesel budget. If you sail and use the engine only for docking no problem, but motoring long distances can blow the budget. In Italy we have recently seen 1,90 Euro per liter diesel, or about 8 USD per gallon.
But then we haven't refilled this season as we try to cover our miles under sail.


Boat choice for the budget would be a Lagoon 380, FP Athena, maybe FP Lavezzi.
You could also look into the FP Mahe, she is shorter but more roomy than the Athena and has a nicer interior. She comes with very simple, well thought systems (like one seacock instead 9 on the similar sized 380). Only the Mahe has a limited load carrying capacity but for 2 it should be OK, and the 3 cabin version has only one head. Get a backup bucket at least, or better yet a spare toilet (I once had to source a new toilet seat in an emergency with family guests arriving, no fun!).

Forget the Lagoon 400, Lipari, and even the 410. These boats are simply outside your budget. If you find one that could fit I bet she has issues you can't afford.
unless you are very lucky, and someone else had bad luck: divorce, death, financial issues, etc.
I once bought a Lagoon 410 cheaply, simply because the wealthy PO needed one of his many toys gone very quickly so his wife would allow him a new Ferrari. Win-win, but an exceptional case and very stressful to meet the timeline. But this was a once in a lifetime deal


I'd stick with the big names, as they are easily sold when the time comes. A Lagoon 380 will sell anywhere anytime, even in remote locations (you never know!). A one-off not so much


Refit budget can be too low or just right, depending on what you buy and what you need. You can easily spend that just on genset and watermaker. Or spend the same amount on tons of solar, 12v watermaker, new sails, new electronics, etc and still have a good sum left. Its all up to you!

[jcarr]

These guys keep good track of cost. This includes everything except food, non sailing travel and entertainment.
https://outchasingstars.com/2018/07/...new-catamaran/

[Mattm]

if i may, on the financial side. i would re mortgage the house for 150k (im assuming you own your house outright) finance the boat for the other 30k. letting the bank take all the risk of the boat.
invest your 170k+30k cruising kitty. the interest earned on the 200k cruising kitty would cover the mortage and boat payments easily even if it were invested conservatively. plus enough spare to protect from inflation. you would also have the added bonus of having access to $200k if a serious emergency presented itself.

in other words dont buy the boat for 170k. let your 170k pay for the boat and at the end of the payments you get keep the boat plus you keep the 170k


this wouldnt be a zero risk endeavor but i would definately say its less risky than sailing around the world

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Mattm

if i may, on the financial side. i would re mortgage the house for 150k (im assuming you own your house outright) finance the boat for the other 30k. letting the bank take all the risk of the boat.

Do banks take such a risk for individuals? I guess ultimately they will grab your balls and squeeze every lost penny out of you. That is as long as you still have possessions they can get hold of, like a house.

[Mattm]

Technically no. They are taking the risk on the house and partially on the boat. As an individual you would be raked over the coals in interest because the lending rules are much different for personal loans.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Mattm

Technically no. They are taking the risk on the house and partially on the boat. As an individual you would be raked over the coals in interest because the lending rules are much different for personal loans.

So at the end it is not the bank taking the risk but the boat & house owner. The bank is covered 100%

[Mattm]

Originally Posted by rabbi

So at the end it is not the bank taking the risk but the boat & house owner. The bank is covered 100%

No the bank is covered to the same extent that you are. You are taking slightly more risk than the bank.
There is always risk.
Even paying cash you are taking risk like how quickly will the boat depreciate, what if the rental market crashes and you can't find a renter, what if you trash your boat. Paying cash for such a large purchase has the same risks in the other direction as getting a loan. But if people didn't take these risks there would be no such thing as retirement. Every single person who retires is taking advantage of these market vehicles that allow them to retire.
I believe you should speak with a financial advisor and they will be able to explain the different options available to you.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Mattm

No the bank is covered to the same extent that you are. You are taking slightly more risk than the bank.
There is always risk.
Even paying cash you are taking risk like how quickly will the boat depreciate, what if the rental market crashes and you can't find a renter, what if you trash your boat. Paying cash for such a large purchase has the same risks in the other direction as getting a loan. But if people didn't take these risks there would be no such thing as retirement. Every single person who retires is taking advantage of these market vehicles that allow them to retire.
I believe you should speak with a financial advisor and they will be able to explain the different options available to you.

Over here the bank takes zero risk. If you want a mortgage on the house (and only on the house, so the bank does not have acces to other assets) they offer you maybe 200k on a house worth 400k so they are safe.
If you want a mortgage on a boat they well give it only if they have access to anything you own. So at the end the individual bears the risk.

Seems to be different in the US

[smj]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Over here the bank takes zero risk. If you want a mortgage on the house (and only on the house, so the bank does not have acces to other assets) they offer you maybe 200k on a house worth 400k so they are safe.

If you want a mortgage on a boat they well give it only if they have access to anything you own. So at the end the individual bears the risk.



Seems to be different in the US

In the US, if you default on your house payments and the bank sells your house through foreclosure you are still liable for the difference between what you owed and what the bank was able to sell it for, if sold for less than what you owed. I believe the bank also has to give you the difference if sold for above what you owe, minus expenses of course. Now the bank collecting from you may be a different story.