Cropping A Mast

[scarlet]

I'm sure there is a technical sailor word for doing this, so I apologize for not calling it by it's proper name. What I am asking is has anyone had a tall mast Cat (over 65 feet) and cut the mast to make it ICW compatible.

My husband and I are looking at, roughly, a 45 foot cat, and most all of them meeting our specifications have masts over 65 feet. Since we will be keep it in the Florida panhandle, all of the marinas we like require going under bridges to get to the gulf.

I have heard that it is possible to shorten the mast, (and the sail). However, I'm wondering how that affects both the integrity of the mast, and also, sail performance. Is this truly a safe thing to do?

Also... anyone have a rough idea how much this would cost?

[smj]

That would be a hell of a cropping as a lot of the bridges in Florida's panhandle have a 50' height.

[neilpride]

Very very expensive!!!

[Skeezix]

Not to besmirch the expertise here at all, but you might also ask this question at boatdesign.net.

Hard to come by, but have you looked for ketch rigs?

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Skeezix

Not to besmirch the expertise here at all, but you might also ask this question at boatdesign.net.

Hard to come by, but have you looked for ketch rigs?

I don't know what a ketch rig is.. What Catamarans come that way?

[Skeezix]

Originally Posted by scarlet

I don't know what a ketch rig is. What Catamarans come that way?

Ketch is two masts. Main forward and a second shorter one aft. Because it is flying three sails (foresail, main, and the rear is called the mizzen) it can have the same sail area with shorter masts. Sometimes even a bit more sail because there is less heeling force with shorter masts. There are a bunch of other advantages to ketches too. More sail combinations of course. You have more options when winds come up. Or even in moderate wind you can drop the main and still have a balanced helm to steer slowly into port. If you completely blow your headsail, say lose the halyard or mainmast, you still can sail. At anchor you can keep a reefed mizzen up and it acts as a weathervane to steady the boat. Masterful sailors can steer a ketch with sails alone.

Downsides of a ketch is it usually does not point as well upwind and it can have less power downwind. These because one sail can shadow the other. And of course it adds one more level of complexity and more parts.

Not a cat shopper, so I can't name any offhand. There may be none, what with sloops essentially monopolizing the market now. But maybe the savvy folks here can mention some.

Also I wonder if a gaff-rigged sloop would be another solution to bridges. That is more like the typical sloops you are looking at, but with a shorter mast and then a bar like a boom at the top of the mainsail that goes higher. Again, I don't know if they exist. But that might be a way to modify a tall mast sloop and lose less sail.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Skeezix

Well said.

Ketch is two masts. Main forward and a second shorter one aft. Because it is flying three sails (foresail, main, and the rear is called the mizzen) it can have the same sail area with shorter masts. Sometimes even a bit more sail because there is less heeling force with shorter masts. There are a bunch of other advantages to ketches too. More sail combinations of course. You have more options when winds come up. Or even in moderate wind you can drop the main and still have a balanced helm to steer slowly into port. If you completely blow your headsail, say lose the halyard or mainmast, you still can sail. At anchor you can keep a reefed mizzen up and it acts as a weathervane to steady the boat. Masterful sailors can steer a ketch with sails alone.
Good sailors can do this with most rig configurations. And it helps to know how in case you lose a rudder, & have to limp into port. With or without some form of 2ndary rudder.

Downsides of a ketch is it usually does not point as well upwind and it can have less power downwind. These because one sail can shadow the other. And of course it adds one more level of complexity and more parts.

Not a cat shopper, so I can't name any offhand. There may be none, what with sloops essentially monopolizing the market now. But maybe the savvy folks here can mention some.
There aren't many cats with this rig, for the reasons you've mentioned. A few Chris White designs have some variants, including some out of the ordinary ones. But otherwise you're looking at having to build a custom boat in order to have one. And her resale value would surely hurt for it.

Also I wonder if a gaff-rigged sloop would be another solution to bridges. That is more like the typical sloops you are looking at, but with a shorter mast and then a bar like a boom at the top of the mainsail that goes higher. Again, I don't know if they exist. But that might be a way to modify a tall mast sloop and lose less sail.

Any more, you'll want to go to a square top main instead of a gaff rig in order to accomplish the above. But even they, you're still losing a lot of sail area by cropping the mast. And gaffers are few & far between. Some of it on cats due to the added weight aloft, & also due to their mediocre aerodynamics at high speeds.

Cutting down a mast on a cat this size is a major thing. It'll cost a lot, now, & when you sell her. In addition to mandating that she have a new suite of sails. So more $ yet again. Not to mention the gigantic hit it'll have on her performance.
There are much better, & cheaper options.

[Skeezix]

The Catamaran Company Announces a Price Reduction

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...h5Cw7mJLz1nxrw

1979 Spronk 50 ketch rigged catamaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Seeking Solace]

I live in the Florida panhandle and there are thousands of marinas that have Gulf access without needing to go under a bridge. You may not be able to go down the ICW, but even there you find many places to get in and out of the ICW before the bridges. You would just have to plan ahead. I don't know anybody who would buy a cat to cruise the ICW. I can see the reasons for wanting one such as open space. If you're going to have a big cat, take it on the outside! Look for marinas in the area you live that have Gulf access without a bridge in your path. Many of them are 70+ feet as long as they aren't on the ICW.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Seeking Solace

I live in the Florida panhandle and there are thousands of marinas that have Gulf access without needing to go under a bridge. You may not be able to go down the ICW, but even there you find many places to get in and out of the ICW before the bridges. You would just have to plan ahead. I don't know anybody who would buy a cat to cruise the ICW. I can see the reasons for wanting one such as open space. If you're going to have a big cat, take it on the outside! Look for marinas in the area you live that have Gulf access without a bridge in your path. Many of them are 70+ feet as long as they aren't on the ICW.

Hi Seeking Solace..
My husband will be doing contract work on Eglin and Hurlburt AFB.. that's why we will be there, at least for a couple of years... We have no intention of cruising the ICW.. location is based on his work..

Do you think you could share with me some of the marina's in that area that have higher bridges? We've had a really difficult time finding one that is near to the Air Force Bases...

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by scarlet

Hi Seeking Solace..
My husband will be doing contract work on Eglin and Hurlburt AFB.. that's why we will be there, at least for a couple of years... We have no intention of cruising the ICW.. location is based on his work..

Do you think you could share with me some of the marina's in that area that have higher bridges? We've had a really difficult time finding one that is near to the Air Force Bases...

Yep, I thought about the beam on a cat being a size issue on the ICW as well. Since she'll be 20-25' wide. Which would make for lots of "interesting" encounters with other boats. And her rig wouldn't exactly be svelte either, since the shrouds on a cat's rig are commonly led to a point at, or near max beam. With them retaining some of that width fairly high up.

One resource on marinas is www.ActiveCaptain.com though I'm not familiar enough with it to know where to look for bridge heights. DOT might have tools for that. But as noted, on a big cat, her rig will be wider. Which could be a bit more challenging on some lower opening bridges that you'd need to pass through.

[Seeking Solace]

Originally Posted by scarlet

Hi Seeking Solace..
My husband will be doing contract work on Eglin and Hurlburt AFB.. that's why we will be there, at least for a couple of years... We have no intention of cruising the ICW.. location is based on his work..

Do you think you could share with me some of the marina's in that area that have higher bridges? We've had a really difficult time finding one that is near to the Air Force Bases...

Every marina on the South side of HWY 98 will likely have Gulf access with zero bridges. There may be some exceptions. Everything seems a long way away to people who are not from the area. I live in Pensacola and drove to Destin last weekend. You pass right through Eglin (Largest base in Florida IIRC) along HWY 98.

There are marinas everywhere here. You'll need to find one that has enough draft and a wide enough slip for your vessel. The best advice I can give you is to just drive along 98 and stop into the one's that you like best. Go online and look at the reviews for them and make an educated choice. You get much better rates for long term than you will for short term at nearly all of them. There are also hundreds of privately owned docks that are in the bays with Gulf access and no bridges for lease or rent. Some have better rates and more privacy. They'll range from just a dock to docks with water, power, and bathrooms. There are even some with laundry facilities in outbuildings that is included in the rent.

The drive from Ft. Walton to Destin, Pensacola, Gulf Breeze, or other areas is really not bad at all unless it's during rush hours. Hwy 98 is a 2 lane road for a great deal of the time and it gets very congested when going to work or home for 9 to 5 workers. There's a lot of undeveloped land too and speed limits from 30-55 mph. Don't speed, they will and do give tickets liberally. It's Florida so there are tourist 365 days a year and winter lasts about a month where you need a light coat. Summer is brutal. It's expensive to live along the water, most who work or live near the base will live at least 5 miles inland. Live aboard is nearly twice as expensive in most cases than just renting a slip. Still cheaper than renting a house and often power is included.

Hope that helps. I've had no experience renting from anyone in Ft. Walton so I would be leery of recommending anyone. You'd be amazed that there are terrible places right next to super high end ones everywhere here.

[Steve Bean]

Wouldn't the Waterway Guide be a good resource for information? I found it very valuable when I was cruising on the East Coast some years ago.

[Frankly]

The bridges at Navarre, Brooks Bridge (Ft Walton), and Destin Pass are all 50 ft (+-). Hathaway Bridge coming from Panama City is listed/ marked at 65 ft but I suspect is higher as I think that is the clearance to the nav lights which are hanging well below the actual bridge.

The West Bay Bridge and 331 Bridges are going to be the short pole in the tent so to speak. They are marked 65 but you might squeeze a couple of feet more (Winter tides can help).

If what you want is just a home on the water might consider stepping/ unstepping the mast to get to a marina. Blue Water Bay marina (Rocky Bayou), a couple or three on Boggy Bayou and at least one in Ft Walton (Gainer Bayou I think). These are all on the Western end of Choctawhatchee Bay and pretty convenient to Eglin and Hurlburt.

"thousands of marinas with Gulf access" kind of falls into the same bucket as "building a wall and get Mexico to pay for it"

[Seeking Solace]

I guess the number of marinas depends on how far you want to travel. Here's a few to google view. Mexico's going to pay for that wall....lol

Adventure Marina - Ft. Walton Beach, Florida - Okaloosa County - Adventure Marina is a full service marina located on the Intercoastal Waterway at the foot of the Brooks Bridge on Okaloosa Island. Adventure Marina has wet slips available for permanent dockage or the transient mariner. Dry storage is available in our secure lot for boats on trailers or on racks. Adventure Marina also sells a complete line of new and pre-owned boats, Yamaha and Suzuki outboard engines and Venture trailers to meet every boating need.

Bahia Mar Marina - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - We are located in the Bayou Chico Channel and can help you with your boating needs. Bahia Mar Marina is a full-service marina with a 50 ton travel lift, working boat yard, 227 slip dry storage and on-site facilities for fiberglass, paint, bottom work, and prop and canvas repair.

Bayou Grande Sailing Marina - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Located in a well-protected cove at the northeast corner of NASP, Bayou Grande Marina has 206 wet slips,covered and outdoor dry storage and beach storage. Sailing classes are available and the topside lounge, the Crow's Nest, is available for parties and meetings. There is a wet bar, restrooms and a large outdoor patio overlooking the bay and marina.

Bluewater Bay Marina - Niceville, Florida - Okaloosa County - Bluewater Bay Marina is a natural cove marina located on the North shore of Choctawhatchee Bay, 3 miles north of the Inter-coastal Waterway and 7.5 miles NE of Destin, Florida. We offer wet slips, dry storage and a ship store. We can help arrange for mechanical, electrical, or canvas/sail repair.

Day Break Marina - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Day Break Marina is a family owned and operated business that was founded in 1989. Here at Day Break, we are committed to maintaining a high level of customer satisfaction. Our Hangar withstood hurricane Ivan and houses approximately 240 boats anywhere from 16 to 33 feet. We have racks available outside for boats that might be too tall to put inside or for customers who would just rather have their boat outside. We offer wet slips that each come equipped with either 30 or 50 amp electrical service and water.

Destin Marina - Destin, Florida - Okaloosa County - The Destin Marina is a family-owned and operated business that has been open to the public since 1970. With one of only two boat launches in Destin, we provide easy access to Crab Island, Choctawhatchee Bay, and the Gulf of Mexico. We also offer day-to-day boat slip rentals, which are open to the public and available on a first come, first serve basis; gas and diesel, bait and fishing tackle, beer and ice, snacks and sodas, and everything else you may need for an enjoyable boating experience.

Fort Walton Beach Yacht Basin Marina - Fort Walton Beach, Florida - Okaloosa County - Welcome to Ft. Walton Beach Yacht Basin, located on the Santa Rosa Sound, next door to the Original Waterfront Crab Shack and directly across from the Ft. Walton Beach City Hall. We're one of the region's oldest family owned/operated marinas and considered by many to be the finest boating facility in the area. We have a state of the art marina rebuilt in 2005 with gated security with 24hr access to your boat. We are a Pensacola area marina located just across East Pass from Destin and the Destin marinas.

Fort Walton Yacht Club - Fort Walton, Florida - Okaloosa County - The FWYC is located on the western end of beautiful Choctawhatchee Bay in the Florida panhandle. We welcome visitors from other yacht clubs, have many amenities, a friendly atmosphere, and a home town feel. We are a member of both the Florida Council of Yachts and the Gulf Yachting Association.

Harbor View Marine - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - We are a full service marina facility with a parts and service department. Also available are a licensed yacht broker and sales office. We are one of the largest marine dealerships on the Gulf Coast. We stock over 100 new and used boats for sale at our display yard.

MarineMax Panama City - Panama City, Florida - Bay County - In addition to being Northwest Florida's largest boat dealer, MarineMax Panama City is also Northwest Florida's most complete marina. We are one of the few "On The Water" Dealers. We not only sell boats but we have both wet and dry storage facilities for over 400 boats at our Panama City marina.

Gulf Coast Boating Centers - Ft. Walton Beach, Florida - Okaloosa County - Gulf Coast Boating Centers is a full service Pensacola area boat dealer also offering slip rentals, and dry storage for your boat. Located on Highway 98 at the Sunrise Marina, our storage area is fenced, asphalted and secure. Special boat services are also available including maintenance, prep and cleaning.

Harbor Walk Marina - Destin, Florida - Okaloosa County - HarborWalk Marina is located in the Destin Harbor. HarborWalk Marina offers everything you'll need for a fun-filled day on the water!

Holiday Harbor Marina - Perdido Key, Florida - Escambia County - Holiday Harbor Marina is a family-owned, full-service marina located on beautiful Perdido Key, Florida just minutes from Pensacola, Florida. Our Facilities include two ship stores stocking bait, tackle, supplies, snacks, drinks and ice, two fuel docks, both dispensing gas and diesel and a full service marine repair facility. Holiday Harbor is also Perdido Key's largest marina and Florida's first pump-out station.

Legendary Yacht Club - Destin, Florida - Okaloosa County - At Legendary Yacht Club, you have the opportunity to lease or purchase a dry boat slip and save money. Dry storage not only keeps your boat protected from the elements of sea and sun, but eliminates the need for hull painting and underwater cleanings. It also gives boat owners peace of mind during hurricane season, as our facility is rated to withstand winds up to 145 MPH. Dry storage also removes the frustration of boat trailers and crowded boat ramps.

Lighthouse Marina & Boatyard - Panama City Beach, Florida - Bay County - Lighthouse Marina on Grand Lagoon, Panama City Beach, Florida provides saltwater sportsmen the area's best access to the Gulf of Mexico and the two-fisted adventure it affords. It's the marina for the hard-core fisherman...it's that simple. Our storage barn, loading area and waterfront fuel dock rubs elbows with one of Panama City Beach's hippest and busiest night spots.

Lost Key Marina and Yacht Club - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Whether your vessel is 17 feet or 32 feet, our marina’s exclusive 269-feet staging dock is designed to facilitate smooth docking and temporary slipping for after hour usage. In addition, our staff provides full boat washing, engine flushing and unlimited vessel loading/ unloading services to create the ultimate marina experience.

Marina Management - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Marina Management offers a range of top-of-the-line facilities and the highest quality in nautical services anywhere along the emerald coast. We offer long and short term options, a haul out facility, fuel and pump out services and much more. For traveling boaters we have hot showers, clean restrooms and laundry facilities.

Marinas on Bayou Chico - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Island Cove Marina, Palm Harbor Marina, and Yacht Harbor Marina are three very well protected marinas located on Bayou Chico off of Pensacola Bay and only about seven miles from the Gulf of Mexico. Island Cove is a Florida Clean Marina and has been since 2002. The marina has an old world Florida charm that is not found in most marinas today. Palm Harbor is a modern secure marina full of amenities. Yacht Harbor has wide slips and is well protected at the inner mouth of the Bayou. It is well protected and is only minutes from the Bay and the Gulf of Mexico.

Marquis Bayou Marina - Milton, Florida - Santa Rosa County - The Marquis Bayou Marina, formerly the Marquis Bayou Boathouse, is a quiet, deep water Marina located off the Blackwater River in Milton, FL. We offer monthly rentals. Convenient to Pace, Pensacola, Gulf Breeze and Navarre our slips range from 8 to 22 feet in width with water and electric. Bridge clearance to the ocean is about 40 feet. We are a Pensacola area marina located just minutes from Pensacola Bay.

North Light Yacht Club and Marina - Niceville, Florida - Okaloosa County - North Light Marina is a full service marina open to the public serving the Destin, Fort Walton and Niceville areas. Featuring the area's finest amenities and providing service infused with genuine Southern hospitality, North Light is one of the nicest and friendliest marinas on Florida's Emerald Coast. North Light Marina is proud of its eco-conscious construction that exceeds the state's Clean Marina standards, and is proud to serve the boating community as a Destin/Northwest Florida marina.

Palafox Pier & Yacht Harbour Marina - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Our marina is located in the heart of downtown Pensacola and has floating docks and can accommodate vessels up to 175 feet in length. Palafox Pier is equipped with handicap-accessible ramps, docks, restrooms and showers. We also offer other amenities on-site like fuel docks with non-Ethanol gas, diesel, oil, and pump-out services.

Pelican's Perch Marina & Boatyard - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - A convenient, friendly, full service marina and boatyard located in historic Pensacola, Florida. Pelican's Perch Marina & Boatyard is considered to be Pensacola's oldest and most protected Boatyard & Marina under continuous family ownership. Our marine and boat repair services include haul-outs, discount Merc gas sterndrives and engines, gas and diesel repairs, fiberglass work and more.

Pensacola Beach Marina - Pensacola Beach, Florida - Escambia County - Pensacola Beach Marina is conveniently located on Pensacola Beach. This destination marina offers wet-slips for resident and transient boaters alike. Sheltered by Little Sabine, this calm water retreat sits within walking distance from numerous bars, restaurants, and entertainment in the core or Pensacola Beach. Also situated across from the sand bar in Little Sabine, this is a hot spot for boaters of all kinds, during the summer, and especially Blue Angel Weekend.

Pensacola Beach Yacht Club - Pensacola Beach, Florida - Escambia County - This site is dedicated to providing current information about the Club and it's associated events. For individuals considering us for membership, we have a location section that includes pictures of the Club and a map of our location. We encourage these people to come by the Club and pay us a visit and see for yourselves. Pensacola Beach Yacht Club is a member of Gulf Yachting Association and the United States Sailing Association.

Pensacola Shipyard Marina and Boatyard - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Pensacola Shipyard's facility is located just 7 nautical miles from the Pensacola pass in the protected waters of Bayou Chico. Once you've traveled a mile up the Bayou, Pensacola Shipyard is located on the Northeast side, and is one of the most protected marinas in the Gulf Coast during adverse weather conditions. Our marina facilities include 670 linear feet of waterfront capable of docking vessels 100' plus and floating docks capable of accommodating vessels from 70' and under.

Pensacola Yacht Club - Pensacola, Florida - Escambia County - Pensacola Yacht Club is nestled within 17 acres of pristine landscape at the entrance of Bayou Chico on Pensacola Bay. Pensacola Yacht Club is for members who appreciate the south’s finest. It features tennis courts, an Olympic size swimming pool, the finest cuisine on the entire Gulf Coast and a breathtaking view of Pensacola Bay.

Perdido Cove RV Resort and Marina - Perdido Key, Florida - Escambia County - You’ll find us in Perdido Key directly on the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway, conveniently located approximately half way between Pensacola, Florida and Orange Beach, Alabama. We offer 24 deep water-slip marina with full hook-ups, cable TV, wifi and boat pump out station. Our resort and marina are just a couple miles from the endless sugar white sand beaches and emerald blue waters of the Gulf of Mexico, and only thirty minutes by boat to Pensacola Bay Pass and Alabama Point Pass.

Pirates' Bay Guest Chambers & Marina - Fort Walton Beach, Florida - Okaloosa County - Full Marina with approximately 120 boat slips ranging from 25 ft., 30 ft., 35 ft. and 40 ft. are available to rent, with your Vacation Condo, for an additional charge. Nightly, weekly and monthly rates available. Your Condo Rentals in Fort Walton Beach include access to two beautiful pools, a sandy beach area, and beautiful grounds and views for guests to enjoy!

Santa Rosa Yacht and Boat Club - Gulf Breeze, Florida - Santa Rosa County - The Santa Rosa Yacht and Boat Club in Gulf Breeze, Florida, is located just across the bay from Pensacola, and across the sound from Pensacola Beach, right on the Intracoastal Waterway. Located in the Northwest Florida panhandle, our marina facilities are available to the public and include dockage, fuel, pump-out and other amenities.

Shalimar Yacht Basin Marina - Shalimar, Florida - Okaloosa County - We are a full service marina serving the greater Destin FL boating community. We offer various competitively priced wet and dry storage options and an easy access fuel dock and snack bar. We have earned the 'Clean Marina' designation and deep water ensures easy-in easy out for your boating convenience. We have been serving this boating community for over 50 years. Whether covered or not, our wide docks are fully equipped with power, lighting, and 24/7 security.

Sun Harbor Marina - Panama City, Florida - Bay County - Sun Harbor Marina offers 123 slips, accomodating vessels 20-50 feet, transients and long term. We also have secured Dry Storage available. Guided by relentless focus on our imperatives, we will constantly strive to implement the critical initiatives required to achieve our vision of serving the boating community.

Treasure Island Marina - Panama City Beach, Florida - Bay County - Treasure Island Marina is Northwest Florida’s premier on-the-water storage, parts and service facility. Family owned and operated for over 35 years, we have everything you are looking for in a full service marina. A myriad of storage options are available for your boat of any size including dry stack inside, outside rack, in the water and covered in the water slips are all offered.