Cruising cat - sub 90 degrees tack upwind

[smj]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

hope Django will not mind reposting his shot. But his Lagoon 380 that has increased carbon sails can do this



in TWS 16 kn (8.1 TWS on pic is m/s) his boat does 5.4 kn VMG. This is 22 kn apparent. And is it so impossible that slightly bigger boat with same design principles but standard sails cant do 6.35 kn in 27kn apparent with full sails? As i mentioned, would not push boat that hard. And not comparing to daggerboard - sure most conditions they are superior, but in strong winds and flat water, well maybe there .. but dont care.



See pic of his sail numbers and then my excel analysis.

The numbers support the Lagoon 380 as being slightly quicker than the Lagoon 400.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by smj

The numbers support the Lagoon 380 as being slightly quicker than the Lagoon 400.

it likely is, as it has better white sails/weight. But once too much sails for the wind that edge is gone. this is when one starts 'reefing' by decreasing sail angle instead of removing some sails. And weight becomes asset in such conditions.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

hope Django will not mind reposting his shot. But his Lagoon 380 that has increased carbon sails can do this



in TWS 16 kn (8.1 TWS on pic is m/s) his boat does 5.4 kn VMG. This is 22 kn apparent. And is it so impossible that slightly bigger boat with same design principles but standard sails cant do 6.35 kn in 27kn apparent with full sails? As i mentioned, would not push boat that hard. And not comparing to daggerboard - sure most conditions they are superior, but in strong winds and flat water, well maybe there .. but dont care.



See pic of his sail numbers and then my excel analysis.

Ok yes mid 5s upwind VMG is believable especially in strong winds with mild sea state. I suppose you could pinch in flat water and strong winds transiently and get there or slightly higher. But in any sort of open water like usual cruising or even racing I just don’t believe your boat will make 6.35 upwind VMG. Very few can

[Donkey]

No cruising catamaran is doing 22 degrees apparent......in any conditions.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Donkey

No cruising catamaran is doing 22 degrees apparent......in any conditions.

ours done down to 27 apparent but only in strong winds, which is still ok in my books. Yep that was my mistake above. One can see from pic it is 28 app.

So what i do is in enough flat water when wind crosses 20 kn I tighten apparent wind angle 1 degree for 21 kn app, 2 degrees for 22 kn app, etc. Normally go to 25 kn apparent then reef or loosen main and furl jib.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

To all doubters out there :

We will go on next one of these rallies in NC, corona willing. Please join and we will settle all the differences ! That is the only place I can convince my wife to go, because of course suckling pig as reward.

I find their entry fee excessive. Also their "safety" requirements.

The old Brisbane to Vanuatu rally was $200. Even better, the old Port to Port was $200, but they paid your $320 customs and quarantine fees.

We did the Brisbane to Vanuatu, stopping at Huon reef. Condo cats and monos started showing up 24 hours after us.

But if you'll pay our entry and liferaft hire, we're in.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I find their entry fee excessive. Also their "safety" requirements.

The old Brisbane to Vanuatu rally was $200. Even better, the old Port to Port was $200, but they paid your $320 customs and quarantine fees.

We did the Brisbane to Vanuatu, stopping at Huon reef. Condo cats and monos started showing up 24 hours after us.

But if you'll pay our entry and liferaft hire, we're in.

sorry i am not that rich. And I agree fees are excessive for the service. But someone else could organize it.. There will be plenty of new city sailors eager to do something else than office<->suburb life and trying to prove how they have best performance boat. Your boat has clear advantage in smoother waters. But i think on multiday open ocean passage things get more equal.

We have also left FP behind for bit less than a day or so, on the way back. And it was more due to better sailing, not boat factor.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I find their entry fee excessive. Also their "safety" requirements.

The old Brisbane to Vanuatu rally was $200. Even better, the old Port to Port was $200, but they paid your $320 customs and quarantine fees.

We did the Brisbane to Vanuatu, stopping at Huon reef. Condo cats and monos started showing up 24 hours after us.

But if you'll pay our entry and liferaft hire, we're in.

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

sorry i am not that rich. And I agree fees are excessive for the service. But someone else could organize it.. There will be plenty of new city sailors eager to do something else than office<->suburb life and trying to prove how they have best performance boat. Your boat has clear advantage in smoother waters. But i think on multiday open ocean passage things get more equal.

We have also left FP behind for bit less than a day or so, on the way back. And it was more due to better sailing, not boat factor.

Depending on when, I might be interested in coming too. I can't wait to see this foiling L400 in action. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Nothing to organise, it's not a race just a few boats sailing out at the same time and keeping an eye on each other.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Depending on when, I might be interested in coming too. I can't wait to see this foiling L400 in action. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Nothing to organise, it's not a race just a few boats sailing out at the same time and keeping an eye on each other.

that should do. Yeah, i thought i managed to raise some interest in my sailing style

we need some youtuber with us to create nice touchy stories.

[Jim Cate]

Ummm, guys, you don't need an expensive rally to do this. Just agree to meet somewhere convenient to all and agree to leave on the first wx window thereafter, or better on some specific day. Call it an informal race between yourselves, and have a good time.

Jim

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ummm, guys, you don't need an expensive rally to do this. Just agree to meet somewhere convenient to all and agree to leave on the first wx window thereafter, or better on some specific day. Call it an informal race between yourselves, and have a good time.

Jim

sounds like good formulae but at present unrealizable.

I would like to get more of these doubters/lagoon whingers out there participating, and let them demonstrate what they are made of in deep blue.

As we all know, talk is cheap, especially in time of internet.

Will revisit later on.

[Donkey]

[QUOTE=arsenelupiga;3412998]
As we all know, talk is cheap, especially in time of internet.

irony1

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

[arsenelupiga]

[QUOTE=Donkey;3413030]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

As we all know, talk is cheap, especially in time of internet.

irony1

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

glad you enjoy the show. someone accused me of tacking downwind and then show tracks

that should keep you in suspense.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

sounds like good formulae but at present unrealizable.

I would like to get more of these doubters/lagoon whingers out there participating, and let them demonstrate what they are made of in deep blue.

As we all know, talk is cheap, especially in time of internet.

Will revisit later on.

You seem to be doing most of the talking here. I've offered to race several times, you keep refusing, or only agreeing to something thats impractical or virtually impossible right now.

How long does a race need to be before it suits you? How about across the Gulf of Carpenteria?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You seem to be doing most of the talking here. I've offered to race several times, you keep refusing, or only agreeing to something thats impractical or virtually impossible right now.

How long does a race need to be before it suits you? How about across the Gulf of Carpenteria?

your boat is optimised for costal cruising, mine for long ocean crossing. We carry 2.5T you carry much less judging from hull volumes.
We differ in perception what comfort is.

So it is really difficult to compare. Taking wife with you and 5 days at least passage, would level field somewhat.

You ask me to race with you in flat water behind island, is same as I ask you to race with me across atlantic. You would overweight your boat and be slower or take large risks by not having enough spares, fuel, food, comfort etc ,etc.