Cruising cat - sub 90 degrees tack upwind

[tp12]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

congrats! you finally made it on water. was already worrying where are your precious comments.

at least you talk sailing

Sure you have seen my upwind tracks ? they are updated every second so impossible to write them by hand.

And if you look at heading of this thread it says " Cruising cat - sub 90 degrees tack upwind".

Unfortunately no other cat than 2 smaller lagoons able to supply evidence. This is excluding daggers boats as at this point still believe daggers provide some advantage.

What I've seen is you ignore every consideration that very experienced people have given you, ignored their advice and have every excuse under the sun as to why you can't prove any of this in a race with Alan. Your tracks aren't evidence of what you claim and you won't take the video that's been suggested you take to actually prove your claims.

I've sailed on Alan's boat and, quite frankly, you wouldn't know which way it went out on the water and he and his wife have lived on that boat for 10 years now and have everything on it. Your attempts to diminish his boat by saying it's a coastal cruiser with no payload only reflect on you. I know personally of at least one sistership that has circumnavigated and so has a 48c. It is a very well designed light and strong boat.

Let's be honest, you genuinely stated that the payload of 44c is 900kg ... it beggars belief and makes it impossible to take anything you've said seriously ... unless you're just trolling, of course.

The reality is the only person on this thread who believes what you're saying is you.

So, let's apply Occams Razor. What's more likely: you're a lone wolf, gun sailor who can overcome physics and make a charter boat faster than actual faster boats and we're all wrong or ... everyone else is right and...??

If you genuinely believe the former is true you should sign up for the Vendee Globe or something....they'd be lucky, and happy, to have you skipper a boat and you could make some decent coin out of it!



Next stop, American's Cup! Peter Burling would be bricking it

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Donkey

It is a wonderful thing that you enjoy your boat and I hope you continue to do so. Having followed your posts for a few years I believe your experience is limited to your current boat. Without going back and looking, I think you also suggested that you might upgrade some time in the future. You are clearly interested in performance and don’t need a huge payload. There are boats out there that will blow your mind......and your Lagoon out of the water.

Enjoy your cruising.

it is not that simple. It is 2 of us and "happy wife happy life" is important part. So I get her happy then I get a chance to make best of what I have.

I will not say what she thinks of performance cats as I am nice guy and is not pretty.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it is not that simple. It is 2 of us and "happy wife happy life" is important part. So I get her happy then I get a chance to make best of what I have.

I will not say what she thinks of performance cats as I am nice guy and is not pretty.

You consistently blame your wife for all your adverse comments, not what I consider a man to be.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Donkey

At 10T plus and a waterline girth (beam just doesn’t do it justice) to length measurement of 8:1, it goes upwind exactly as I would expect.

The Lagoon 400 waterline to hull beam ratio is a fat 6.87, that baby must push a huge bow wake.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by tp12

What I've seen is you ignore every consideration that very experienced people have given you, ignored their advice and have every excuse under the sun as to why you can't prove any of this in a race with Alan. Your tracks aren't evidence of what you claim and you won't take the video that's been suggested you take to actually prove your claims.

I've sailed on Alan's boat and, quite frankly, you wouldn't know which way it went out on the water and he and his wife have lived on that boat for 10 years now and have everything on it. Your attempts to diminish his boat by saying it's a coastal cruiser with no payload only reflect on you. I know personally of at least one sistership that has circumnavigated and so has a 48c. It is a very well designed light and strong boat.

Let's be honest, you genuinely stated that the payload of 44c is 900kg ... it beggars belief and makes it impossible to take anything you've said seriously ... unless you're just trolling, of course.

The reality is the only person on this thread who believes what you're saying is you.

So, let's apply Occams Razor. What's more likely: you're a lone wolf, gun sailor who can overcome physics and make a charter boat faster than actual faster boats and we're all wrong or ... everyone else is right and...??

If you genuinely believe the former is true you should sign up for the Vendee Globe or something....they'd be lucky, and happy, to have you skipper a boat and you could make some decent coin out of it!



Next stop, American's Cup! Peter Burling would be bricking it

I thought it is always good to hear others opinion, and not get pissed if what you hear is not to your liking, the only way to improve sailing and safety. You verify and dismiss, or take on board if legit. No big deal, that is how i operate.


I exposed my improvement in sailing technique hoping to further improve, and not fight.

Eh well, enjoy the day.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

I thought it is always good to hear others opinion, and not get pissed if what you hear is not to your liking, the only way to improve sailing and safety. You verify and dismiss, or take on board if legit. No big deal, that is how i operate.


I exposed my improvement in sailing technique hoping to further improve, and not fight.

Eh well, enjoy the day.

I'm not seeing you do what you're saying here ... If you're actually genuine I would spend some time going back through this thread and really read the information that's been given to you and ask yourself why everyone else on the thread doesn't believe you.

In any case, you have a lovely boat and you enjoy sailing her so you're already ahead in the game of life. Just accept her for what she is and try not make things up to diminish others

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by tp12

I'm not seeing you do what you're saying here ... If you're actually genuine I would spend some time going back through this thread and really read the information that's been given to you and ask yourself why everyone else on the thread doesn't believe you.

In any case, you have a lovely boat and you enjoy sailing her so you're already ahead in the game of life. Just accept her for what she is and try not make things up to diminish others

i really dont see where you got this from. Looks like to me everyone is trying to diminish my boat. Just read last 2 pages of bashing.

For me all boats are compromises and unlike other posters here, I never try to diminish. I have done bit on research on Umadum because i was interested in 44C boat, and posted what I found, assuming 44C boat is similar. 44C boat is very fast but as everything, it comes at price. Nothing new.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i really dont see where you got this from. Looks like to me everyone is trying to diminish my boat. Just read last 2 pages of bashing.

For me all boats are compromises and unlike other posters here, I never try to diminish. I have done bit on research on Umadum because i was interested in 44C boat, and posted what I found, assuming 44C boat is similar. 44C boat is very fast but as everything, it comes at price. Nothing new.

People are countering your fantasy claims, that's not diminishing your boat or bashing it. It's being real. If you go back and take some time to reread the thread you'll see that. The claims you've made about the Oram 44c are wildly inaccurate and yes, diminish his boat. Your assumptions aren't facts. The level of knowledge you've displayed about other boats and sailing isn't as high as many here and you're ignoring their advice and suggestions.

You come across as very sensitive about your boat and it's place in the spectrum of other cruising boats. Which is why I said it's a good boat. You're right in that all boats are compromises but you don't seem happy to accept the compromises of your boat. It's not designed to do what the Oram 44c can do and that's why it can't do it. Conversely it's also why the Oram isn't the sales success that Lagoon is.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by tp12

People are countering your fantasy claims, that's not diminishing your boat or bashing it. It's being real. If you go back and take some time to reread the thread you'll see that. The claims you've made about the Oram 44c are wildly inaccurate and yes, diminish his boat. Your assumptions aren't facts. The level of knowledge you've displayed about other boats and sailing isn't as high as many here and you're ignoring their advice and suggestions.

You come across as very sensitive about your boat and it's place in the spectrum of other cruising boats. Which is why I said it's a good boat. You're right in that all boats are compromises but you don't seem happy to accept the compromises of your boat. It's not designed to do what the Oram 44c can do and that's why it can't do it. Conversely it's also why the Oram isn't the sales success that Lagoon is.

i made no claims about his boat, how can I? I have never been on one maybe see couple times. I have seen his videos.

I do not know what measurements boat has and explicitly said that i am guessing or assuming his boat is like Looping 45.

If you read past exchanges you will find his negative comments about my boat large number of times. And yours as well.

The other guy mentioned L400 causes sea rises just couple posts above. Now this is offensive, dont you think. But it is just internet. so i do not care.

You take falsely one of my posts as offensive. Your reaction is a bit over the top.

[arsenelupiga]

Admin please close this thread.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

This is approximate calc for Oram 44 from data i guessed.

Hull length to width = 15:1
Hull length = 44 ft = 13.41m
Assume same 0.59 factor for hull shape - this does not change much.

calc

Hull width at waterline = 13.41/15 =0.895 m

Immersion = 0.895*13.41*0.59 = 70kg /cm

3 tons will sink your clearance for 43 cm

1.5T will sink for 21.5 cm

This may be acceptable in coastal sailing but nono for ocean sailing as boat and crew will suffer.


I am sure you are careful with weight.

Your guesses are wildly innaccurate. Prismatic coefficient does change much. Long slender hulls automatically have higher prismatic coefficient. Our LWL:BWL ratio is 12.5:1.

Our immersion rate is very similar to yours.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i made no claims about his boat, how can I? I have never been on one maybe see couple times. I have seen his videos.

I do not know what measurements boat has and explicitly said that i am guessing or assuming his boat is like Looping 45.

If you read past exchanges you will find his negative comments about my boat large number of times. And yours as well.

The other guy mentioned L400 causes sea rises just couple posts above. Now this is offensive, dont you think. But it is just internet. so i do not care.

You take falsely one of my posts as offensive. Your reaction is a bit over the top.

Have a lovely evening

[Chrisatlantic]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

The other guy mentioned L400 causes sea rises just couple posts above. Now this is offensive, dont you think. But it is just internet. so i do not care...

That is not offensive… It’s hysterical.

And you are absolutely delusional about your boat’s upwind performance.

I read as far into this thread as I did because I wanted to see how long it took for people started calling you out on the ridiculous claims you make. If you really believe what you were saying is true then I hope you’re a salesman - because all the best ones believe their own ********.

If I had even a little respect for you, I would talk about each of your claims and how the way you may be gathering data that is flawed but I don’t so I won’t bother. It is clear from others’ attempts to do something similar that you have no interest in reality. So I hope you continue to have a nice fantasy with your performance sailing Turbo S400 RR2 Light Giantkiller.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

congrats! you finally made it on water. was already worrying where are your precious comments.

at least you talk sailing

Sure you have seen my upwind tracks ? they are updated every second so impossible to write them by hand.

And if you look at heading of this thread it says " Cruising cat - sub 90 degrees tack upwind".

Unfortunately no other cat than 2 smaller lagoons able to supply evidence. This is excluding daggers boats as at this point still believe daggers provide some advantage.

I supplied evidence. In fact a track from the same location as your evidence.

As I've stated many times, a boat can achieve sub 90' tacks easily. Just go slow. Either by pinching or by reducing sail, or simply by being slow.

But it doesn't neccessarily produce the best possible VMG. And if you're serious about improving your sailing technique, it's VMG you should be looking at, not tacking angles.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i made no claims about his boat, how can I? I have never been on one maybe see couple times. I have seen his videos.

No claims? Without knowing any of our dimensions you claim we sink 10 cm per tonne.

You claim our boat is only suitable for coastal cruising.

You also seem to hide behind "your wife's opinion" rather a lot.

I haven't disparaged your boat. I've simply corrected some of your incorrect statements. A boat designed and built primarily for charter is not "optimized for ocean crossings".

That's not to say it can't cross oceans. But it's not the ultimate ocean runner.