Cruising - winds/waves conditions

[KayB]

My husband and I having been sailing for 2 years, 5 times a year on bareboat charters. We are thinking of living aboard and cruising the Caribbean and the Mediterranean for 5-10 years. We are looking at a catamaran that will sail well in light winds. My question is what, on average will we find the sea state to be island to island, during the non-hurricane season, December to May in the Caribbean? What would be general sea state be in the Mediterranean in the summer. We are familiar with the Meltimi and the difficulties it brings in Greece. What about other areas of the Mediterranean?

We just returned from the Mediterranean, where it is usually calm/no wind or wind/lots of wave swell.

BVI seems sheltered and not a true indication of open water sailing. What can we expect?

Be kind. This is my first post.

[Cheechako]

Many sail the lee side of island in the Eastern Caribe. Calm there but, not so great sailing sometimes! Between islands is where things can get rough. It can go from 10 knots to 40 knots of wind fast in the channels between islands. With some current, the waves can be very steep and maybe 10-12 ft.
There are various passages you may get some big water, like the DR to Puerto Rico/Mona Pass, or Grenada to Trini etc, but good planning and weather watching and things are usually pretty good.
Not been to the Med.

[KayB]

Thank you very much for your reply. This does confirm our desire for a catamaran that will sail in light winds. Hopefully, with proper planning we could avoid some of the confused seas, higher waves that make for very bumpy rides.

[Cheechako]

I'm not much of a light air sailor. When it's down, I motored the lee engine easy rpm and motorsailed. The Cat would point up about 15-20 degrees that way, I'd charge the batteries and make water!

[c-reel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njcbjnSMdH0&t=441s

The Med can be fun ;-)

Originally Posted by KayB

My husband and I having been sailing for 2 years, 5 times a year on bareboat charters. We are thinking of living aboard and cruising the Caribbean and the Mediterranean for 5-10 years. We are looking at a catamaran that will sail well in light winds. My question is what, on average will we find the sea state to be island to island, during the non-hurricane season, December to May in the Caribbean? What would be general sea state be in the Mediterranean in the summer. We are familiar with the Meltimi and the difficulties it brings in Greece. What about other areas of the Mediterranean?

We just returned from the Mediterranean, where it is usually calm/no wind or wind/lots of wave swell.

BVI seems sheltered and not a true indication of open water sailing. What can we expect?

Be kind. This is my first post.

[doublewide]

Welcome to CF
We, a husband/wife team in our late 60's have been cruising the eastern Caribbean during the winter season for the last 10 years aboard our Antares catamaran.
In the eastern Caribbean, the trade winds blow constantly year-round, always from some easterly direction. Occasionally in the winter there is a north swell big enough to be bothersome, depending upon the storms further north in the Atlantic. Then we retreat to an anchorage that is protected against north swells, and wait for them to go away.
Most days the wind-driven seas are east at 5-8 feet, but when the trades are strong the seas can be 10-12 feet. We don't go offshore if the seas are above about 7 feet. It can be done, but it's too sporty for us, and it's easy to wait for a better day.
When you live aboard, you don't sail from one island to the next very often. It is not like having a 2-week charter where you want to sail every day and cover a lot of territory. It is easy to wait for good conditions to make a move.
You will seldom encounter light airs in the eastern Caribbean. Last season we had only about two days when we could consider using a light air sail. I wouldn't put too much emphasis upon light air performance when choosing your cat. You need a seaworthy boat for crossing oceans if you are going to split your time between the Med and the Caribbean.

[DMCantor]

In the Caribbean, most cruisers only sail between islands when the conditions are favorable, and the definition of "favorable" varies quite a bit from boat to boat and crew to crew. Especially in late December and January, you can have winds above 20 knots for weeks at a time. If that's too much for you, you can have a long wait.

On our monohull, we have learned to reef the sails so that winds of 30 knots or even more don't really bother us. Waves are a different matter. It doesn't happen often, but occasionally you will see waves at 10 or 12 feet. That's not unsafe for us, but very uncomfortable, especially on the beam. We tend to stay in the harbor on those days.

[yeloya]

I 've only been in Caribbean once for 5 months , so I won't comment on this. I sailed the Med from Gibraltar to Turkey 4 times and and did a lot of sailing on the eastern Med.
Generally speaking Med is not fun to sail for a number of reasons..
-The winds are not predictable and can change the direction and strength in a matter of seconds , if you are sailing close to shores.
-There is a quite a bit of traffic if you are on main ship routes or in narrow straits. (Gibraltar, Messina, etc..)
-there are also a lot of fishing nets or buoys even if you are sometimes 10-15 nm away from the coast, particularly on western Med..
-And most importantly , the waves may not be very big but their length is very short compared to the Oceans. That leads to quite uncomfortable ride for almost every boat shorter than 60 ft..
-Meltemi is blowing north westerly in the Agean sea between May and September. It can get up to 40-45 kts in the middle of Agean sea (Santorini, Mikanos, Astipalia, etc) but is much quiter on Turkish coasts.
-The worst are the southerly/east southerlies which usually blows in winter. It's not easy to find shelters for those winds and usually they bring big swells..
But it's definately worth exploring, the Med is simply awesome. My favorite is Ionian sea (west of Greece) and Lycian coast of Turkey between Bodrum to Finike.


Cheers


Yeloya

[Lihuedooley77]

All we can do is pass on the conditions that we experienced during non hurricane months.

All monohulls and very little motoring. Always had good sailing winds. with some surprises tossed in by an angry sea god or two. That fickle woman does as she wishes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bahamas, Abacos:

About May or early June.... great sailing, no problems, sunshine and shallow waters, anchored off shore under sail, Bahamian Moors, sometimes picked up a mooring.

No bad weather or huge seas. Sailing, snorkeling, roaming on land, and rumming.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BVI: 34 yrs and next trip will be # 17.

Mid to last of May. Super great sailing , jenneau 36 or a Benneteau. Double reefed, jib rolled in to 100 to 110%, close, close reach up the Sir Francis Drake Channel, seas maybe up to 5 feet or so, , winds 18 to low 20's. Passage from Road Harbor to Levrick Bay, Virgin Gorda. Sometimes same trip only leaving from the Bight at Norman.

We sail the BVI , for two weeks, most all of the islands. We have had some strong winds and rain storms blow thru, with low clouds and low visibilities, but made it to protected anchorages and mooring fields. Cleared up the next morning.

Other BVI passages, were down wind, with just the jib rolled out, and able to stop and have great fun times at various islands. Only used 7 to 8 gals of fuel in two weeks. Mostly to charge up the batteries and picking up moorings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- French West Indies :

More great sailing, St. Martin, Anguilla, St. Barts...very good winds, 37 foot mono hull, as usual, just Erica and I. Sailed, no need to motor.

St. Barts, un-forecast, Got anchored in Gustavia Harbor, and a strong low pressure storm roared in with great vengance. Winds up to 64 mph, rain horrizontal, visibility a few feet. We stood anchor watch at the helm, engine on to take some of the load off the ground tackle.

Storm hit about 3:30 pm, in the afternoon. We we alternated standing anchor watch until the winds abated until about 2 am. Both of us in the cockpit, no one slept until the winds dropped off. Next morning , beautiful sunshine. The whole two weeks was good sailing winds , except for the tropical depression for 12 hours in St. Barts. Again , we sailed between islands . Very little fuel used.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Windwards and Grenadines...

Peterson 44, with sailing club friends. St. Lucia to Petite St. Vincent and back.

Wow. Super sailing winds, decent seas, wind 18 to 28 blows all the way from Africa, reefed main, 110 % jib, heeled over bit, with a stalk of bananas tied up to the back stay.

About two weeks, some long passages, making 8 to 9 kts. Wonderful sailing and snorkeling and fun times in several anchorages , many good times, on many different islands. Again, we sailed with only using the engine for anchoring and battery charging.

The Peterson was a strong boat and handled the spirited winds...

many long passages, some 70 plus miles up the island chain, as we had to return the vessel to St. Lucia.....no drop offs one way in Grenada in those days.

We had no storms, and if I remember correctly no rain...just welcome strong winds. Sheltered and great anchorages and good times.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like the OP, we sailed the Caribbean, around May, before hurrricane season and the kids getting out of school for the summer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece: The only med sailing that we have done.

60 foot sailing vessel, but not skipper on this one. Shared cabin. September..
Excellent strong winds, fast and great passages. The Greek islands were fantastic.
We paid for the cabin, but acted as watch captains, helm time and crewed and assisted in the med mooring . Posidon Charters, two weeks , including an additional two or so days in San Torini .

No bad weather, but, we did have to alter our original intinerary due to some expected strong winds on our bow. We just experienced super great sailing, and were able to lend a hand with voluntary watches.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ireland....will just add this since we combo'd Ireland for a few weeks and Greece.

Ireland, just Erica an I, ( two different two week motor vessel trips up the River Shannon.) One was in june the other in August. 30 ft, and then a 34 ft motor vessel, two weeks on the River. Fabulous.

Weather at sea was probably a bit different, but we had sunshine, wind, clouds, rain, and even fog. Did not slow us down a bit. We planned for what we thought were the best chances for sunshine. No worries, wonderful riverside villages, great Irish people, singing songs, and partying down at the Pubs, and then six days in Dublin .

Even tho, where ever we travel, we study the climate and weather situation and hoped for the best, but we just rode with the wave, no matter what mother ocean or nature delt out us.

Point being, the weather and the ocean will do what ever they wish, and not necessarily what the weather guessers are predicting . Calm, flat seas and low speed winds may not be happening.


Hargghhhh, rum and sea stories, grand adventures and good friends are a way of life.

Fair winds and following seas to you.

[fuentes]

We purchased our 45 ft. Leopard in the BVI over three years ago in march. We sailed it to Panama. We tried to avoid the large swells north of Columbia, but got caught in 8-10 ft. swells and winds above 24 knots anyway. So much for planning.
We crossed the Panama canal. and found out why Balboa named it "the Pacific Ocean". Slight breeze and ocean currant against us for days. We had to ask for "curtesy entrance" into Costa Rica to refuel.
We went out 250-300 miles off the coast to avoid El Salvador and Guatemala. Some one mentioned pirates and another gentleman suggested to stay away from the land. "That is where the rocks are" in case of a bad storms. We finally got some fair winds off of Guatemala and beginning to feel as if we had control of the situation. We were off of Papagallo, when I noticed a red blotch on our 36 mile radar. We had seen this in Costa Rica. Just rain and higher winds. But this one went from 36 miles away to 24 in a short time. We turned the engines on, turned into the wind, began taking the sails down, and wham. The wind hit us. It was 10-15 miles ahead of the rain clouds. It looks like the Tehuantepec reputation is well earned. The chubasco passed as quickly as it came. Did not even give us time to change our shorts.
Once again we were short on fuel and fighting light breeze and ocean current and thought it prudent to refuel in Puerto Escondido. Turned on both engines and headed toward the coast. When we arrived, there was a red flag on the beach and we could not get any panga to come out. We lowerd our dingy and went for fuel. Got us a taxi and went to the local gas station. It turned out they were expecting a "Tehuantepec" and Capitania had closed all movement of small craft. We missed a storm with high winds and crossing swells by four hours. I sure am glad we are such good planners!
After that, some one must have looked down and said to Himself, I better help these fools or they will never get home. We made it to La Paz and then San Felipe in the Sea of Cortez. We have been sailing there ever since. We watch and plan according to "windfinder" and the news on TV. Those girls on the weather channel are very good looking, but their forecasts are not that accurate. I wonder sometimes if I watch them for the weather information or have some hidden, naughty reason to watch.
We have avoided some bad times and have canceled plans, but we still get surprised from time to time and have to hide behind islands and protected areas. Sometimes we just have to take what is thrown at us. I will say this. That Leopard catamaran has taken it all in stride. We have a better boat than we are sailors. From what I have read, a good day off of South Africa is like a bad day off of Baja in the Sea of Cortez.
My thought is get a sailboat that will take those difficult situations and not compromise for one that will sail well in light winds. When you are up to your a$$ in alligators, the sailing in light winds will not compensate for the harsh reality you will encounter no matter how good you are at planning.
Have a nice day. Hector

[fuentes]

Originally Posted by c-reel

The Med can be fun ;-)

This looks like some of the stuff "chubascos" we have run into in the Sea of Cortez. We consider it "fun" and an "adventure" after we get through them, changed our shorts, and got our heart rate back to, what you would call normal. I often ask myself. What are you thinking! Why not stay home and watch the weather girls on TV! No fool like an old fool I guess.

[sailcrazy]

We spent 3+seasons sailing the eastern Medd, and had few issues. BUT....you want to stay up on the wx and the meltami; we spent many a day in a protected harbor waiting for the winds and waves to slow down. The Turkish coast was fabulous but we did have our fair share of wx days. The Greek Islds also had some strong and unexpected winds and seas...especially as you went farther south. The Adriatic can have it's moments, too, but we sailed from Greece to Venice and back without incident! The Italian coast, both the east and the west side, proved to be our biggest challenge, and by the time we made it around to Genoa our fun-meter was burned out! Had some good sailing, but lots of big winds and water. Having never been to the Caribb, we had a rude awakening once we got there....the trade winds are just that-an easterly wind, not a breeze! 20-25kts and more daily has been common over the 4 seasons we've sailed there! Going westerly is great, but easterly headings....you need to wait and pick your day. By far the best sailing wx we've had was the 10+ years we spent in the Philippines and Asia! Bottom line....don't look for a light winds boat, look for a boat that can handle 10'+ seas and +30kt winds safely and comfortably, or plan on lots of days huddled in a protected harbor.

[fxykty]

Light winds boat (that is, capable of sailing well in light winds) can be reefed to handle higher winds. No problems. If you select your boat well the easily driven hull shape will also handle the higher seas very well. Decent aerodynamics of the cabin and superstructure mean that you won’t need a lot of power to sail in larger seas.

For stronger winds and waves its more important to have well organised deck gear and systems that enable you to reef in and out and to adjust course as needed with as little risk and hassle as possible. And a motion and layout that allows you to cook, rest and sleep.

As many say, cruising is 5% sailing and 95% moored. But if your boat doesn’t sail well or you don’t feel too comfortable sailing in tougher conditions, you’ll be stuck longer in places you might not want to linger in and you won’t enjoy the time you are sailing.

[captwylie]

Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77

All we can do is pass on the conditions that we experienced during non hurricane months.

All monohulls and very little motoring. Always had good sailing winds. with some surprises tossed in by an angry sea god or two. That fickle woman does as she wishes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bahamas, Abacos:

About May or early June.... great sailing, no problems, sunshine and shallow waters, anchored off shore under sail, Bahamian Moors, sometimes picked up a mooring.

No bad weather or huge seas. Sailing, snorkeling, roaming on land, and rumming.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BVI: 34 yrs and next trip will be # 17.

Mid to last of May. Super great sailing , jenneau 36 or a Benneteau. Double reefed, jib rolled in to 100 to 110%, close, close reach up the Sir Francis Drake Channel, seas maybe up to 5 feet or so, , winds 18 to low 20's. Passage from Road Harbor to Levrick Bay, Virgin Gorda. Sometimes same trip only leaving from the Bight at Norman.

We sail the BVI , for two weeks, most all of the islands. We have had some strong winds and rain storms blow thru, with low clouds and low visibilities, but made it to protected anchorages and mooring fields. Cleared up the next morning.

Other BVI passages, were down wind, with just the jib rolled out, and able to stop and have great fun times at various islands. Only used 7 to 8 gals of fuel in two weeks. Mostly to charge up the batteries and picking up moorings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- French West Indies :

More great sailing, St. Martin, Anguilla, St. Barts...very good winds, 37 foot mono hull, as usual, just Erica and I. Sailed, no need to motor.

St. Barts, un-forecast, Got anchored in Gustavia Harbor, and a strong low pressure storm roared in with great vengance. Winds up to 64 mph, rain horrizontal, visibility a few feet. We stood anchor watch at the helm, engine on to take some of the load off the ground tackle.

Storm hit about 3:30 pm, in the afternoon. We we alternated standing anchor watch until the winds abated until about 2 am. Both of us in the cockpit, no one slept until the winds dropped off. Next morning , beautiful sunshine. The whole two weeks was good sailing winds , except for the tropical depression for 12 hours in St. Barts. Again , we sailed between islands . Very little fuel used.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Windwards and Grenadines...

Peterson 44, with sailing club friends. St. Lucia to Petite St. Vincent and back.

Wow. Super sailing winds, decent seas, wind 18 to 28 blows all the way from Africa, reefed main, 110 % jib, heeled over bit, with a stalk of bananas tied up to the back stay.

About two weeks, some long passages, making 8 to 9 kts. Wonderful sailing and snorkeling and fun times in several anchorages , many good times, on many different islands. Again, we sailed with only using the engine for anchoring and battery charging.

The Peterson was a strong boat and handled the spirited winds...

many long passages, some 70 plus miles up the island chain, as we had to return the vessel to St. Lucia.....no drop offs one way in Grenada in those days.

We had no storms, and if I remember correctly no rain...just welcome strong winds. Sheltered and great anchorages and good times.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like the OP, we sailed the Caribbean, around May, before hurrricane season and the kids getting out of school for the summer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greece: The only med sailing that we have done.

60 foot sailing vessel, but not skipper on this one. Shared cabin. September..
Excellent strong winds, fast and great passages. The Greek islands were fantastic.
We paid for the cabin, but acted as watch captains, helm time and crewed and assisted in the med mooring . Posidon Charters, two weeks , including an additional two or so days in San Torini .

No bad weather, but, we did have to alter our original intinerary due to some expected strong winds on our bow. We just experienced super great sailing, and were able to lend a hand with voluntary watches.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ireland....will just add this since we combo'd Ireland for a few weeks and Greece.

Ireland, just Erica an I, ( two different two week motor vessel trips up the River Shannon.) One was in june the other in August. 30 ft, and then a 34 ft motor vessel, two weeks on the River. Fabulous.

Weather at sea was probably a bit different, but we had sunshine, wind, clouds, rain, and even fog. Did not slow us down a bit. We planned for what we thought were the best chances for sunshine. No worries, wonderful riverside villages, great Irish people, singing songs, and partying down at the Pubs, and then six days in Dublin .

Even tho, where ever we travel, we study the climate and weather situation and hoped for the best, but we just rode with the wave, no matter what mother ocean or nature delt out us.

Point being, the weather and the ocean will do what ever they wish, and not necessarily what the weather guessers are predicting . Calm, flat seas and low speed winds may not be happening.


Hargghhhh, rum and sea stories, grand adventures and good friends are a way of life.

Fair winds and following seas to you.

I love your attitude! Thanks to you I am starting my day with a smile!

[travellerw]

Been in the Eastern Caribbean for 3 years now. Not really much light wind sailing (especially last season). Sure, in the lee of the islands can be light, but those are short passages. Grenada is one of the bigger islands and we can go from the south to the north 4-5 hours. If the winds are really light and we can't use the lee winds, then we just run the motors until we hit the channel. Many cruisers pick good conditions and go to the windward of the islands to avoid those light winds and motor running.

Down here you will find TONS of catamaran that no one would call "light wind" sailors. They seem to have no problem running between the islands.

As people have already said, picking the right weather window is key to having decent seas in the channels. Things can get pretty kicked up in the channels making for some pretty rough conditions. On good days, whole packs of cruisers will be moving between islands. On rough days, the cruisers stay put and watch the charter boats bash away.