Daggerboard catamarans

[tp12]

Trying to console yourself? It's ok to choose a slow boat. You've prioritised comfort, no worries.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

Lagoon see this design idea for new L 420 S2

Leave boat as is, except add fake draggerboard like extension to be used instead of whisker pole. It will look cool and improve performance when reaching/downwind! If monos around the world race have it, why not lagoon ?!

The picture you posted is unmistakebly a Swisscat. The new Lagoon is not 420 but 42.
Am I missing something ?

BTW, I've heard rumors that the Benetteau group (Benetteaau, Jeanneau, Lagoon) is investigating the market for a new line of catamarans. In order to avoid the cannibalisation with Lagoon, I believe they will target a performance boat between FP and Catana. I'd doubted though that this will come with daggerboards. It might be something like old Nauthitecs that are moving more on comfort side after the merger with Bavaria..
Anyway, the cat market is expanding very fast and there will space for anyone who makes decent boats at reasonable prices..

Cheers

Yeloya

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by yeloya

The picture you posted is unmistakebly a Swisscat. The new Lagoon is not 420 but 42.
Am I missing something ?

BTW, I've heard rumors that the Benetteau group (Benetteaau, Jeanneau, Lagoon) is investigating the market for a new line of catamarans. In order to avoid the cannibalisation with Lagoon, I believe they will target a performance boat between FP and Catana. I'd doubted though that this will come with daggerboards. It might be something like old Nauthitecs that are moving more on comfort side after the merger with Bavaria..
Anyway, the cat market is expanding very fast and there will space for anyone who makes decent boats at reasonable prices..

Cheers

Yeloya

That would be promising. Outremer needs some real competition. Catana too heavy. I asked FP if they had any interest in doing a lighter dagger version of their models, but they said no.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by yeloya

The picture you posted is unmistakebly a Swisscat. The new Lagoon is not 420 but 42.
Am I missing something ?

BTW, I've heard rumors that the Benetteau group (Benetteaau, Jeanneau, Lagoon) is investigating the market for a new line of catamarans. In order to avoid the cannibalisation with Lagoon, I believe they will target a performance boat between FP and Catana. I'd doubted though that this will come with daggerboards. It might be something like old Nauthitecs that are moving more on comfort side after the merger with Bavaria..
Anyway, the cat market is expanding very fast and there will space for anyone who makes decent boats at reasonable prices..

Cheers

Yeloya

this meant to be an example how boat would roughly look like with fake draggerboards. Have not noticed brand. Just picked random pic from interent. Playing with rating calculation formulas, 'pole' may actually add more usable speed overall than draggerboards and get these 200+ nm days day after day. Who want to sail upwind in anything but flat seas anyway.

[smj]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

this meant to be an example how boat would roughly look like with fake draggerboards. Have not noticed brand. Just picked random pic from interent. Playing with rating calculation formulas, 'pole' may actually add more usable speed overall than draggerboards and get these 200+ nm days day after day. Who want to sail upwind in anything but flat seas anyway.

Why do you feel the need to make fun of daggerboards?

[tp12]

Or think that people only buy daggerboard cats for their aesthetic? Weird...

[Saleen411]

I don't think anybody has mentioned Balance catamarans....I think it was a 421 I toured at Annapolis a couple of years ago.

The reason I bring this up is that this cat can come with or without daggerboards. I believe Phi Berman told me the yacht would cost $25k LESS built without daggerboards. I didn't ask about the performance difference. I'm not sure I would have gone with daggerboards had I chosen this yacht.

[44'cruisingcat]

Don't know how they justify $25K. There wouldn't be $2000 worth of material.... $23K for labour? Ridiculous.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Some of those numbers would depend on how high performance the boards were, & what they're made out of. And to some degree the engineering that went into them, the trunks, & boat's structures that support such loads. Ditto the rudders if it was intended as a real high performance boat, as the rudders need to be built on par structurally to match the boards. Along with all of their supporting hardware. But I know nothing about this design in particular, the above's just basic engineering.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

I don't think anybody has mentioned Balance catamarans....I think it was a 421 I toured at Annapolis a couple of years ago.

The reason I bring this up is that this cat can come with or without daggerboards. I believe Phi Berman told me the yacht would cost $25k LESS built without daggerboards. I didn't ask about the performance difference. I'm not sure I would have gone with daggerboards had I chosen this yacht.

The balance is the Montebello reborn, I know when the Montebello was being built they decided to not offer the daggerboard option as it was going to cost way to much, not for the boards but also for the redesign of the interior for the cases and the boat was probably a little heavy to benefit anyway.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by smj

Why do you feel the need to make fun of daggerboards?

not making fun.

Extra build effort, less space, extra weight, extra point of failure, for overall 2% gain in performance based on rating calculations, does not appear attractive proposition. I did sail catana once only and played with daggerboards, so no expert, but ratings cant be all that off ?

You can make 2 % faster boat by shedding 600kg from 10 T cat, for example which appears easier task.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

not making fun.

Extra build effort, less space, extra weight, extra point of failure, for overall 2% gain in performance based on rating calculations, does not appear attractive proposition. I did sail catana once only and played with daggerboards, so no expert, but ratings cant be all that off ?

You can make 2 % faster boat by shedding 600kg from 10 T cat, for example which appears easier task.

Seriously Aresen time to pull you up sport - you sailed a catana once and your giving post after post of your opinion on daggerboard cats as if you somehow have some insight???

I dont get whats going on with those ratings but they are not an accurate representation of typical daggerboard cat performance gap to typical minikeel cat. Not even ballpark.

Cling to em if it makes you feel better about your lagoon though.

But to be honest it seems a little obvious you might be a condo cat skipper with the heart of a wanna be performance cat skipper just trying to feel better about your current situation as someone else posted. Dont be. Just accept the compromise of your choice. You cant have it all mate

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Barra

Seriously Aresen time to pull you up sport - you sailed a catana once and your giving post after post of your opinion on daggerboard cats as if you somehow have some insight???

I dont get whats going on with those ratings but they are not an accurate representation of typical daggerboard cat performance gap to typical minikeel cat. Not even ballpark.

Cling to em if it makes you feel better about your lagoon though.

But to be honest it seems a little obvious you might be a condo cat skipper with the heart of a wanna be performance cat skipper just trying to feel better about your current situation as someone else posted. Dont be. Just accept the compromise of your choice. You cant have it all mate

AMEN.

Sorry, did not mean to offend. But can see whay you can see it like that..

[tp12]

I think Barra has nailed that one ...

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Don't know how they justify $25K. There wouldn't be $2000 worth of material.... $23K for labour? Ridiculous.

I had talked sometime ago with a guy in O' yachts cats who are offering cats both with and without daggerboard. I don't remember exactly but the price difference that he quoted was around 20-25.000 €.
There is no way someone can do it for 2.000 USD, simply no way..
You cannot even buy two daggerboards at that price, not talking about the trunk and the changes that have to be done in the overall structure of the boat.

Cheers

Yeloya