Demountable Catamarans?

[PhiSig1071]

I'm interested in the collective knowledge of the mulithull sailors on here as to the feasibility of "demountable" catamarans.

Some background on the question, I'm applying for a job that will get me back to a place where I can sail and own a boat again. But the job will likely involved moving about every 4-6 years. I would like to buy a boat that I can take with me, relatively easily. (There is a possibility that the job might take me to the Caribbean, so overland transport wont always be an option). Boat requirements would be something that is a fun day-sailor, easy weekender/overnighter for up to four, suitable for a two-week trip for a couple (my wife and I, probably every other year or so). I am most interested in catamarans, but I wouldn't rule out a Tri either, I just have zero experience with them, and a 35ft cat seems to have more room than a 35ft Tri.

I know there are some production "demountable" cats, such as the Beneteau Blue II and the Edel Cat 35, that can be broken down and put into a standard 40ft shipping container. Both of these boats also seem like they fit my requirements. Any others I should consider?

Does anyone here have any experience with "demounting" a cat and shipping it? Or experience in shipping a boat in general? (For cost comparison, vs a 40ft container). I found some online quotes and the cost of shipping the container isn't prohibitive, but I can't find much information about the cost or difficulty of actually disassembling the cat and packing it into a container. Do you think it would be worth it? Is shipping a monohull cheaper/easier?

This is something that's very interesting to me, but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of information about it. So I'm hoping that this thread might start a discussion with some good ideas and information.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Your idea definitely makes sense. Though you need to research it a bit yourself. Both in terms of seeing various boats live, & studying on what's available in the custom & semi-custom market.

On a demountable multihull of that size, unless you're willing to have something that takes up 2 containers, a trimaran will have more interior room. As for the idea to work for a catamaran, both hulls together need to be less than 8' wide in order to fit into a container. Which also kind of rules out having a bridgedeck cabin, unless you go to a design which also has a small deck pod (cabin).

If you go to a cat which when broken down, fits onto a trailer, then you likely can get away with a boat that when disassembled is 10' wide. But check trailering reg's. As in some states things up to 10' wide only require the use of a wide load sign, but in others it's a little more involved. Though likely not as much as say moving a mobile home.

There are plenty of tri's which fit the bill for easy trailerability (sans wide load issues), especially Farriers. Which are plentiful, & also have good resale value. Plus a few other makes of production tri's. Even some fairly large ones.

For catamarans, the choices & numbers of boats are less. Though they're worth looking into. Such as Stilletos, & other big "beach cats". And custom, or semi-custom boats. Like Cat-2-Fold, which is a production version of a Kurt Hughes design, drawn from day 1 to be easily trailerable. And he's drawn quite a number of demountable boats, both cats, & especially tri's.
That, or some of Richard Wood's designs, which are more "demountable" in nature. And are more numerous on the used market.

You can also find boats like a 31' Searunner tri, which are demountable, & fit onto trailers "reasonably" easily. Meaning that you wouldn't do it for a day sail, only for things like long term household/boat moves. Much like most demountable boats. And with Searunners, for example, it's primarily just a question of unbolting the crossarms, & amas. Along with taking off the trampolines.

So not too much work for a few people in a day or a weekend. Ditto on most of the other boats above. With the only quick ones to disassemble being Cat-2-Fold, & Farriers. All of which are built to be easily trailerable within a short time of being at the launch ramp.

BTW, Kurt Hughes has drawn some multi's which are upwards of 40' that are demountables. Both charter boats, some of which get packed into containers & shipped globally. And other boats for private use, but which still are quite large. The limiting factors being one's budget, & thoughts on how much work is tolerable when demounting them. Also, if this route interests you, most such boats can be built by custom yards to your desired level of finish & specific requirements.

Also, while rare in the US, there are some great Australian designs. Such as those by Malcom Tennant, including the one owned by paxfish.

[paxfish]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Also, while rare in the US, there are some great Australian designs. Such as those by Malcom Tennant, including the one owned by paxfish.

Thanks for the plug for the Tennant Wildfire, Uncivilized. I would expect a cadre of Kiwis to be along shortly to correct the country of origin!

I shudder at the thought of breaking it down, though I suspect you could make some provisions during the build to make demounting easier. The hulls on mine are about 1 meter wide at their broadest and thus would fit into a container with plenty of room for cradles, crossbeams, etc. Certainly you could stagger them in a narrow container.

[valhalla360]

I think the problem with demountable cats is you wind up closer to the trimaran in terms of interior space as large deck cabins connected to the hulls are hard to build in a demountable fashion.


Also, for a 35' boat, it's a fairly major project demounting and reassembling them.


We trucked our 34' Gemini with 14' beam a couple times. No major issues and only needed to take the mast down and secure the rigging. Even up to 16' beam is not a major issue though you may need a chase vehicle depending on the state. (we paid a trucking company but if you have a diesel dually and big flatbed, you can do it yourself)

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by paxfish

Thanks for the plug for the Tennant Wildfire, Uncivilized. I would expect a cadre of Kiwis to be along shortly to correct the country of origin!

I shudder at the thought of breaking it down, though I suspect you could make some provisions during the build to make demounting easier. The hulls on mine are about 1 meter wide at their broadest and thus would fit into a container with plenty of room for cradles, crossbeams, etc. Certainly you could stagger them in a narrow container.

My apoligies to all for the goof on where your boat calls "home"!!! Though that not withstanding, she's a sweet ride. And I'd happliy take one if she was on sale... were I looking for a racer/weekend toy.

As to taking her apart. It's only something I'd do if I were moving a long distance. Long enough to preclude sailing her to my new locale in say a week's worth of day hops. Since I only consider something like that demountable, not a boat to take apart, or put together for each sail as one does with a Farrier boat. They're almost as easy to launch & rig as is the top on my Dad's Miata.

Though your boat would be far less involved to disassemble than say one of Kurt Hughes's charter style cats, or his 40' tri. Given that one needs epoxy, & fairing compound to put them together after a move.


BTW, what does she have for a mainsail track, & sail/batten hardware?

[SV DestinyAscen]

Cool idea and sounds like an adventure!

I'd echo what others have said- look for trimarans. I'm afraid a catamaran that you can container will not have sufficient stability - the hulls will have to be extremely narrow and the deck between them limited too.

[44'cruisingcat]

You could probably dismantle some of the Wharrams.

[PhiSig1071]

I will have to look into the Tri's, I have honestly never even set foot on one. But I like the idea of (relatively) easy trailerability in addition to (theoretically) being able to stuff it in a shipping container. The faster sailing would be a benefit too, given the limited use, I could see/visit more in a given timeframe.


As for space, vs a Tri, the two cats that I am most interested in right now both have bridgedeck cabins. The Blue II is more integrated like a normal cat, the Edel is more of a "pod" style. It's a bit of a unfair comparison, because they're both 35ft, and the trailerable Tri's I've seen are usually smaller, but I think they would have more room than a Tri.


The Blue II has doubles forward in each hull, with a galley down in the stern of one hull and a head in the stern of the other, with a very nice dinette in the main bridgedeck cabin. They always have diesel auxiliaries.


There are some good pictures that show the layout here: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/40069


I've seen two layouts of the Edel Cat, one is essentially a complete "owners hull" in each hull, and the other is basically a charter version with cabins fore and aft with a midship head. They all have a relatively large dinette along with the galley in the center pod. The layout seems surprisingly functional, with the exception of having to exit the hull to go from the center pod to the hulls.


Here's an example, although the pictures aren't great:
1992 Edel 35 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


The Edel is usually powered by an outboard, which would could make shipping easier, I could remove the outboard and fuel tanks and wouldn't have to worry about as many flammable liquids. The Edel also seems to have a high enough boom that you could mount a bimini, which would be nice for weekends and longer trips. The Blue II doesn't have enough room for a bimini as far as I can tell.


I'll have to look into some of the Tri's, the idea of being able to trailer it down to the Keys for a week is pretty appealing.

[thinwater]

You may find that trucking a 14-18' beam cat may not be as expensive as narrowing your choices this much. While not cheap, it is done. Quite a few Geminis and PDQs have moved this way. By the time you pay for breaking down, reassembly, and moving the container, and potentially lower resale value (weird layout, more flex), the difference may be tiny, explaining the few options.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by thinwater

You may find that trucking a 14-18' beam cat may not be as expensive as narrowing your choices this much. While not cheap, it is done. Quite a few Geminis and PDQs have moved this way. By the time you pay for breaking down, reassembly, and moving the container, and potentially lower resale value (weird layout, more flex), the difference may be tiny, explaining the few options.

Unfortunately the job may take me to Puerto Rico or the USVI's, so trailering might not be feasible. (Not sure "unfortunately" is the right way to put it!)

The F31 looks more and more interesting to me, but the folded beam is just over 8ft according to sailboat data, and I think the interior of a 40ft container is just under 8, so I'm not sure she'd fit. I think you can ship boats as deck cargo if they'll fit in the footprint of a 40ft container, might have to look into that.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

Unfortunately the job may take me to Puerto Rico or the USVI's, so trailering might not be feasible. (Not sure "unfortunately" is the right way to put it!)

The F31 looks more and more interesting to me, but the folded beam is just over 8ft according to sailboat data, and I think the interior of a 40ft container is just under 8, so I'm not sure she'd fit. I think you can ship boats as deck cargo if they'll fit in the footprint of a 40ft container, might have to look into that.

Then you sail the boat to Puerto Rico from Florida. Isn't that the point?

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Then you sail the boat to Puerto Rico from Florida. Isn't that the point?

I would love to, but I'm not sure I would have the time, you know what they say, the most dangerous thing on a sailboat is a calendar. I haven't ruled out sailing the boat to wherever I move, but I want to research other options. Just in case.

[Timethief]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I would love to, but I'm not sure I would have the time, you know what they say, the most dangerous thing on a sailboat is a calendar. I haven't ruled out sailing the boat to wherever I move, but I want to research other options. Just in case.

Then wouldn't hiring a delivery captain be cheaper, allow you virtually unlimited choice of boat, and be overall easier than trying to find a boat that you will have to eventually/possibly need to disassemble yourself?

Go with the tried and true. Usually there is a reason for them being that way.

Also, there are services to just drop the boat on the back of a freighter or ship transporter and take it wherever you want. Not sure if it is worthwhile for such a short hop, but they do it every day.

Good luck whichever way you go!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

Unfortunately the job may take me to Puerto Rico or the USVI's, so trailering might not be feasible. (Not sure "unfortunately" is the right way to put it!)

The F31 looks more and more interesting to me, but the folded beam is just over 8ft according to sailboat data, and I think the interior of a 40ft container is just under 8, so I'm not sure she'd fit. I think you can ship boats as deck cargo if they'll fit in the footprint of a 40ft container, might have to look into that.

For a Caribbean stop, if you don't have time, a delivery crew or even as cargo on a freighter.

We were considering shipping our Gemini transatlantic a couple years ago and it was only $11k. Not sure the situation in the Caribbean but much shorter distance so might be even cheaper.

We have trucked her and western Kentucky to Detroit was about $5k with mast coming down and going back up.

By the time you pay a yard to disassemble and reassemble plus the cost of a container, it's probably little if any savings but a lot less livable boat.

If you can actually get a few weeks, sailing to some areas of the Caribbean would really keep the costs down and be a fun trip.

[paxfish]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

BTW, what does she have for a mainsail track, & sail/batten hardware?

Thanks for the high praise!

Mainsail track is Tides Marine, as are the batten cars. they work great and very low resistance up and down.

Battens are simple straight flat glass. The sail has enough structure that no special battens are needed. I am still working on configuring the rig where I want it. I built a new boom and working on the rotator.

Quick view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFMvtRrN41Q