Drogues or sea anchor or neither

[Andrez]

Hi I have used a series drouge a fair few times . Easy to deploy very easy to recover. The boats I used it are mono hulls. It is part of our sailing gear and all crew are very comfortable with it. How ever confidence is built by using it so when the weather gets realy bad its not a new thing. Deployed off the stern wheel turned to a point where we are moving at about 10 degrees off the angle of the waves, 2 knt down wind.

[svcielo]

The DDDB has been mentioned, but I would suggest starting with Earl Hinz's book first (Heavy Weather Tactics: Using Sea Anchors and Drogues). He worked with Victor Shane on the fourth edition of the DDDB, the two go hand-in-hand.

IMO it's dangerous to look for a single solution. Every boat is different, and every situation is different. What works for a monohull might not work for a cat, but more importantly what works for one cat might not work for another cat, and most importantly what works for a cat in one situation might not work for that same cat in a different circumstance.

Accordingly, we carry both drogue and para-anchor. Have deployed the para-anchor in a hurricane, it was amazing. Deploying and retrieving, not quite so amazing. But we are a very light long cat with low windage, extremely narrow hulls, and tons of reserve buoyancy in the bows. A heavy displacement cruising cat would certainly see higher loads. We could certainly carry the para-anchor in conditions where it might not work for a different boat.

I read everything I can get a hold of on what has worked for others. My favorite is the Dashew's Storm Tactics (avail free on their website I think).

If you carry only a drogue, what are you going to do if don't have sea room to run off under drogue?

[Andrez]

Originally Posted by svcielo

The DDDB has been mentioned, but I would suggest starting with Earl Hinz's book first (Heavy Weather Tactics: Using Sea Anchors and Drogues). He worked with Victor Shane on the fourth edition of the DDDB, the two go hand-in-hand.

IMO it's dangerous to look for a single solution. Every boat is different, and every situation is different. What works for a monohull might not work for a cat, but more importantly what works for one cat might not work for another cat, and most importantly what works for a cat in one situation might not work for that same cat in a different circumstance.

Accordingly, we carry both drogue and para-anchor. Have deployed the para-anchor in a hurricane, it was amazing. Deploying and retrieving, not quite so amazing. But we are a very light long cat with low windage, extremely narrow hulls, and tons of reserve buoyancy in the bows. A heavy displacement cruising cat would certainly see higher loads. We could certainly carry the para-anchor in conditions where it might not work for a different boat.

I read everything I can get a hold of on what has worked for others. My favorite is the Dashew's Storm Tactics (avail free on their website I think).

If you carry only a drogue, what are you going to do if don't have sea room to run off under drogue?

Interesting question . We always sail a couple of hundred miles off shore so plenty of seas room. With modern weather forcasting if I was any closer we would seek shelter if it was going to be an onshore blow. If there was no shelter then we would head futher out. How ever I must add that most of my sailing is in the Southern Oceon and there is plenty of space with prevailing winds coming off the South American coast . Last time I used it was in 50/60 kn gale for 36 hrs and we went 60 mile down wind , at the time we where on the South Amirican shelf so water depth was not great meaning seas where short and high . Felt perfectly safe all the time. 10 hours after we where back to where we started.
How ever I do believe that one glove does not fit all and you need to find out for your self what works best, Paper never refuses ink

[p435]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

....some say that catamaran beam reaches in heavy seas carry too much risk of capsize, that running before the storm (if possible) should always be the first choice, .....

I have not yet experienced waves of more than 3m and was recently running a close-hauled course (40-50deg AWA) in 7-8Bft winds. This was a bit bumpy but it felt ok.



With 5m and higher waves I would never sail a beam reach course. I consider the chance that a strong blow comes the same moment the boat is leaning heavily leeward due to a wave, being too high. I would run whenever possible and if not I sail a broad reach or close-hauled course.

[fxykty]

On two passages between NZ and Fiji last year we had most of both passages in beam seas 4-5m high, lightly breaking, and wind 25-35 knots true at 80-100 TWA. On one passage we also had a 2m cross swell from a distant low that created higher peaks every so often. No problems, but noisy and 2-3 reefs to keep the top speeds down.

We carry about 3-5 degrees of heel in those conditions so on the side of a wave it’s about 20 degrees of angle to horizontal. But other than dishes and cups sliding off the table it’s no big deal because at sea the waves are relatively long period so the boat is fully supported on both hulls, other than when one hull straddles the top of a wave.

Breakers would try to push us sideways but we did keep the windward board down about halfway to help the autopilot so we mostly just tracked straight. The few really big (relatively) breakers did get us to skid to leeward and the windward board provides good righting moment. Feels a bit like an amusement ride when that happens.

Cats are different to monohulls in their dynamic characteristics and I don’t think you can extrapolate from monos to cats and vice versa. And I assume performance oriented daggerboard cats like ours behave differently to mini keel accommodation oriented cats. But in our case, until we have fully breaking seas I don’t see the problem sailing beam on. YMMV

Regarding laying ahull or more downwind, it depends on windage front and back. We only have one furled jib up front and a cabin, bimini, boom with stack pack, and davits/dinghy towards the back, so in lighter conditions we do drift sideways on. Haven’t dared to try it in heavier conditions.

[BigBeakie]

fxy,

That's really good feedback, thanx

[Ozblithespirit]

Get a sea anchor for gales on the nose; get a drogue for running before a gale. Blithe Spirit, 42 Cat circumnavigated 2005/6 and used both as mentioned,

[BigBeakie]

Hi Ozblithespirit,

I see that's your first post

No pressure, but can you tell us anything about your experience deploying the parachute anchor? It's an aspect that gives some grief to some cruisers, so can you shed any light on what you did, and issues you had etc?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Ozblithespirit

Get a sea anchor for gales on the nose; get a drogue for running before a gale. Blithe Spirit, 42 Cat circumnavigated 2005/6 and used both as mentioned,

A Super Shockwave 42, awesome cat! Open bridgedeck or with a cabin?

I raced on XL2 in the early 90s when Paul Nudd owned her - she is one of the original 39 foot Super Shockwaves and an absolute joy to sail. One of her former crew from my time on her Mike is her new owner and he’s done a great job upgrading her.

[Lance]

I bought the series drogue cones seoerately and assembled my own components ,might have saved about 30 % , but I remember it was a lot if work and time threading all those bits of webbing .
I never used it of any of my Cats and it lived in an "Ikea" collapsable laundry bag ,the spiral wire kind , my plan was to just anchor the two parts of the bridle and ditch the bag over the back .

[p435]

After many different thoughts about drogues and sea anchor I decide to get neither on board. The reason is that a few owners of boat like mine, never used them when doing Atlantic crossing and circumnavigations.



However, I do have a back up system on board, which I can employ when needed: Long ropes and a fold anchor of about 20-25kg about 5m of chain and a long rope which also can be extended if needed.



If needed to slow down my cat, I consider FIRST to employ a long rope (or connect 2 or 3 ) on both sterns so that I am dragging a U-shape rope for more resistance then a straight rope



If this is not enough. I connect SECOND a rather short line between the two hulls and connect on this short line a fold anchor with chain an rope.



Both ways, I can slow down my boat.



Additionally, should the rudder fail or I don't have enough electrical power, I can connect a "steering line" on the end of the rope of the fold anchor, which is connected to the shorter line between the hulls. By pulling the end of this anchor attached rope to one or the other hull, I can position the boat a bit differently to the wind, thus have a kind of emergency steering system.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by p435

After many different thoughts about drogues and sea anchor I decide to get neither on board. The reason is that a few owners of boat like mine, never used them when doing Atlantic crossing and circumnavigations.

How many of them had an EPIRB, liferaft, fire exstinguishers or lifevest they never used? Or Airbags in their cars?

I'm not saying that a drogue / sea anchor is necessary. Certainly not for the Med unless you want to cross it East-West far from land and without weather forecast.
Just saying that nobody I know has used it isn't a valid argument.


I understand that money is a limiting factor. Just do your own risk assessment and consider where you can reduce the most threatening risk per buck.

[le chat beaute]

Jordan series drogue. CG has tested and to date no one has come to grief after using one. Also very easy to retrieve. The only down side is the need for sea room.

[thinwater]

Another common use of a parachute of drogue is to slow down or park. I used a chute once simply because I didn't want to make landfall at night. Instead, I dropped the chute off the bow about 30 miles out and had a good rest. I didn't use full scope, making recovery easy. By morning I was 25 miles out and I sailed in by mid-morning, well rested.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Another common use of a parachute of drogue is to slow down or park. I used a chute once simply because I didn't want to make landfall at night. Instead, I dropped the chute off the bow about 30 miles out and had a good rest. I didn't use full scope, making recovery easy. By morning I was 25 miles out and I sailed in by mid-morning, well rested.

Would heaving-to or forereaching not have accomplished a similar result? Plus if something came up you would be in a situation to be much more responsive.