Expected costs of a 9 year old Lagoon 400

[atlantical]

I think that list has been made up by a boat yard. I just had my 1979 engine out for a rebuild (kubota) I stripped it to the bearings, everything was within tolerance, so just cleaned it, painted it, and put it back.

Why would anyone replace ports, seals yes ports no.

I crew sometimes on a friends 1963 sloop, that still has all the original winches, ports, hatches and very little of the timber has been replaced, he still uses the early 1970s vhf

[Dtm67]

Chakil, I’m the third owner of a 2013 Lagoon 400 S2 and live aboard close to full time. We love the boat as she is perfectly sized (in our opinion) for a cruising couple. Not too big to handle and not so small we could store and fit the things we need to live aboard. We are generously equipped and still inches to go to waterline when fully loaded. And at 11.97 meters length we stay under the 12meter threshold that seems to drive costs up in the med. As an example our current marina while riding out an Adriatic storm gives boats under 12 meters free power and water....

As for the so called “mast rot” issue...it’s not the mast it’s the non structural plywood under the water tanks in the anchor locker that were rotting on some boats do to improper drainage. Lagoon fixed the drainage issue on my boat at their cost as a warranty item, five years after initial delivery. It was a small and straightforward repair.

We have the Yanmar SD60 saildrives and so far two cruising seasons in so good. No issues with that or anything beyond normal maintenance items for the boat as a whole.

[chakil]

Originally Posted by Dtm67

Chakil, I’m the third owner of a 2013 Lagoon 400 S2 and live aboard close to full time. We love the boat as she is perfectly sized (in our opinion) for a cruising couple. Not too big to handle and not so small we could store and fit the things we need to live aboard. We are generously equipped and still inches to go to waterline when fully loaded. And at 11.97 meters length we stay under the 12meter threshold that seems to drive costs up in the med. As an example our current marina while riding out an Adriatic storm gives boats under 12 meters free power and water....

As for the so called “mast rot” issue...it’s not the mast it’s the non structural plywood under the water tanks in the anchor locker that were rotting on some boats do to improper drainage. Lagoon fixed the drainage issue on my boat at their cost as a warranty item, five years after initial delivery. It was a small and straightforward repair.

We have the Yanmar SD60 saildrives and so far two cruising seasons in so good. No issues with that or anything beyond normal maintenance items for the boat as a whole.

Thank you for all these information, its really very valuable for me.
I really like the 400 compared to 39 as a liveaboard. Trying to make a deal on 2010 Lagoon 400 for 250.000 usd but I think the owner is not ready to accept my offer yet. I don't want to spend more than 250.000usd and maybe I can wait for another year to buy the Lagoon I want. We are counting days to start our journey as liveaboards .

[Dtm67]

Good luck on the purchase. It seems like cats (especially owners versions) are enjoying some popularity at the moment and holding value a little better than usual.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by chakil

Thank you for all these information, its really very valuable for me.
I really like the 400 compared to 39 as a liveaboard. Trying to make a deal on 2010 Lagoon 400 for 250.000 usd but I think the owner is not ready to accept my offer yet. I don't want to spend more than 250.000usd and maybe I can wait for another year to buy the Lagoon I want. We are counting days to start our journey as liveaboards .

Good luck from me too. 250k US$ for a L400 owner version fully equipped in ready for sailing conditions would be a bargain, I guess. Usually there are 4 cabin charter L400 catamarans with basic equipment for 250k EUR in a few listings from time to time.

Owners versions usually sell fast, so I hope it is still available.

[Ringmaster]

$1500 for fenders? What kind of fenders do you buy? My 2 cents. The boat is advertised at a depreciated price because it is not new. Is the buyer entitled to then deduct repair/replacement costs over that depreciation? I don't think so.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Ringmaster

$1500 for fenders? What kind of fenders do you buy? My 2 cents. The boat is advertised at a depreciated price because it is not new. Is the buyer entitled to then deduct repair/replacement costs over that depreciation? I don't think so.

Too many people are expecting to get a used boat in the same condition as a new boat, or a discount enough to get it in that condition, or for only a fraction of the price. It doesn't work like that. Repair and replacement costs are fine for broken, damaged, or faulty items, but not for general wear and tear.

[GBR134]

I bought a totally original 1981 monohull cruiser racer. I’ve now had to replace both Main and Genoa much to my disgust. But 2 x eBay bargains helped + a little sail making to make them fit right all in @£1000. Still I’ve only done @3,500 NM in her and there is room for improvement!

[MtnMaiTai]

Originally Posted by chakil

Hi everyone,

I just found a nice 2010 Lagoon 400 with Ac,generator,Ray marine electronics,water maker but I did not arrange the survey yet because I read a lot about which parts may have to be changed for a 10 year old boat , I am just confused.. Almost everything on the boat is original and seems good but if it turns into a money pit I can not afford it or at least it will not be sustainable.
I want to hear your experiences buying a 10 year old Lagoon.

Thanks,

I have a 2009 Lagoon 400, hull #9, I will be interested in what your survey comes up with a price. The price is all about how it has been kept up. If it was a charter boat expect to spend a lot on initial repairs $50k or so.

I am sailing 6-9mo a year, started in California in 2016 and now in Panama for the summer after going through the canal.

Parts dont need to be changed unless they are worn out and not working, most are available, with that being said if the vessel is used like we do most pumps are replaced every 3-5yrs, engines rebuilt at 2000-3000 hrs. If you have a yanmar SD 50 saildrive it is not supported by Yanar but if a replacement is needed a SD60 will work.

I replaced sails when I started but mostly to have ones I wanted. Most sails should last 7-10 yrs.

Actually, I have replaced or rebuilt most everything like cushions, bedding, added solar, netting, sun shades etc. These were done for comfort and convenience since we are 3 years into a 10 yr sail plan, sailing about 3000nm/yr.

I even replaced the cabinet hinges due to corrosion.

I have not had trouble finding parts (Lagoon has a great US parts department which can find anything) but lagoon has discontinued the 400 as of 2016. Most parts are available through other sources or from the original manufacturer like Yamar.

It all depends on how the owner kept up with the repairs and maintained it. The good part of replacing parts you have a log of parts and know what how it works.

My Lagoon is a good safe reliable vessel, I am sure you will be happy with yours. It is perfect for the 2 of us and have had 4 onboard for a time and still very comfortable.

I have not had the "rot" problem on mine.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need a parts list

sv Mai Tai

[drcat]

From the look of things you are getting comments on a lot of items. I'll comment on just 2 Watermaker and Solar and admittedly these are DIY
1) Watermaker Seawaterpro makes a 1 hp 120v ceramic pistons pump w 41" membrane making 21 gal/hr complete kit for $2600. So your estimate is pretty high compared to this type of alternative. There are others that make this type of output water makers for similar prices.
2) Solar - $s seems high. Here are components for 1260 watt system for around $1400 . Four 315 w 20v panels at $187 each from Altestore in Mass ($748), two EPEver 40amp output MPPT solar charge controllers with remote and bat temp sensor at $196 each at amazon ($392) two pairs of 10AWG 30'red and black MC4 cables at $37 each ($74) amazon, each controller could handle 2 panels in series or parallel, two 50amp switch/circuit breakers for output from controllers to battery bank for $13 each ($26) amazon . This comes to $1240, add in sales tax, shipping and a few items (grounding for controllers, black and red cables to battery bank, waterproof deck wire flanges, misc MC4 connectors) and you're at $1400.

[chakil]

Originally Posted by MtnMaiTai

I have a 2009 Lagoon 400, hull #9, I will be interested in what your survey comes up with a price. The price is all about how it has been kept up. If it was a charter boat expect to spend a lot on initial repairs $50k or so.

I am sailing 6-9mo a year, started in California in 2016 and now in Panama for the summer after going through the canal.

Parts dont need to be changed unless they are worn out and not working, most are available, with that being said if the vessel is used like we do most pumps are replaced every 3-5yrs, engines rebuilt at 2000-3000 hrs. If you have a yanmar SD 50 saildrive it is not supported by Yanar but if a replacement is needed a SD60 will work.

I replaced sails when I started but mostly to have ones I wanted. Most sails should last 7-10 yrs.

Actually, I have replaced or rebuilt most everything like cushions, bedding, added solar, netting, sun shades etc. These were done for comfort and convenience since we are 3 years into a 10 yr sail plan, sailing about 3000nm/yr.

I even replaced the cabinet hinges due to corrosion.

I have not had trouble finding parts (Lagoon has a great US parts department which can find anything) but lagoon has discontinued the 400 as of 2016. Most parts are available through other sources or from the original manufacturer like Yamar.

It all depends on how the owner kept up with the repairs and maintained it. The good part of replacing parts you have a log of parts and know what how it works.

My Lagoon is a good safe reliable vessel, I am sure you will be happy with yours. It is perfect for the 2 of us and have had 4 onboard for a time and still very comfortable.

I have not had the "rot" problem on mine.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need a parts list

sv Mai Tai

Thank you for your great writing ..
The seller changed his mind and now asking for 240.000€ , I think he just checked the prices in the market in hign season and now asking for more.
I said I would offer 215.000€ before survey , nothing yet.
I think the Lagoon 400 is a nice boat no doubt about it but I don't think it is worth 240.000€ for 10 year old boat. It is not a charter boat and the engine hours are 1300 if it true..Even if it is at its best condition the navs are the original and sails,rigging all original . At least this or next year you have to spend at least 15.000€.

[sv Stella Maris]

Chakil,

If you ever make it this far after reading so many arguments...

I’m cruising with my family on a well maintained Lagoon that took no options at purchase, so I’m buying them myself as the second owner.

I will say though that 10 years is accurate for a refiit of sorts, but the specifics always differ.

However, where people always seem to go wrong about the 10% annual true cost of maintenance thing is they forget depreciation.

A new boat has relatively low maintenance costs. They still are paying 10% of the hull value, but the newer the boat the more of the percentage is assumed by depreciation and a loss of equity.

If you do much of this refit yourself or at least sub out the work you will gain your sweat equity.

For example, on my L450 I got bids for the solar at US$5-7,500 complete. I did the work and hired subs for things I couldn’t do and spent only US$2,500 for 1,600watts, (3) Victron MPPT’s, all wiring/connections, and structure. All because I did the project management and material acquisition.

Also the watermaker, self instal from CruiseRO US$6,500 installed. I needed an electrician for the power selector and switch connections to make sure I did it all correct.

New main sail: US$9,500 delivered overseas. Cross stitch Dacron.

New radar: $2k. Ran wires myself. Mount is $300, I built one for $75 (better have a good fabricator though). Programming was $150 from a local B&G rep.

(3) new reef lines US$600. I downsized to 10mm from factory 14mm by going Dynema cored. Less friction with smaller, stronger line. I made a deal by buying the entire 100 meter spool from the shop.

PM me with any other specifics for this or future boat. Lagoons are solid. Wet happy with my purchase. No factory support as to be expected for the price point but they are so popular the fellow owners are better anyway.

Here in the Caribbean I haven’t met anyone unhappy with their boat, be it a bathtub or super yacht. ...but the floating bathtub types never worry about locking their stuff up like the rest of us, hmmm. My dream boat is a nice and really comfortable crummy looking boat! Hehe.

Good day.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by chakil

Thank you for your great writing ..
The seller changed his mind and now asking for 240.000€ , I think he just checked the prices in the market in hign season and now asking for more.
I said I would offer 215.000€ before survey , nothing yet.
I think the Lagoon 400 is a nice boat no doubt about it but I don't think it is worth 240.000€ for 10 year old boat. It is not a charter boat and the engine hours are 1300 if it true..Even if it is at its best condition the navs are the original and sails,rigging all original . At least this or next year you have to spend at least 15.000€.

I am curious, how quickly it will change the owner. First owner, owners version, low engine hours, never chartered, fully equipped, in good condition... Really rare.

[chakil]

Let me explain my situation in brief.
We plan to start liveaboard by the end of 2020 and if I buy this boat in Sep , I have no time to deal with it and it will be in a marina around 5 hrs flight away from me,I have no chance to go and check it time to time. I will be able to go to the boat in 2020 July or Aug for a month.
So if this would be the opportunity Lagoon of my life I would go for it but for now I can not really decide. I think if the owners accepts 215.000€ I would go for it but for 240.000€ its the market value and no need to buy 1 year in advance.
What do you think ?

[CatNewBee]

We found ours in September, survey in October, closing in November, been on the hard for 8 months, 6 of them unattended in a marina in a foreign country 1000 km away, went in May to the boat and done the work there fore 2 months living on board, then finally got her into the water in July, sailed her for 6 weeks around the Med - 1000nm shake down course with passages - to a marina only 500km away in another foreign country for the winter, checked her up again after Xmas and been on board after New Year, left her for another 3 months at the dock, finally in Aplil this year moved aboard full time sailing, so about 1.5 years between buying and sailing, really needed the time to sort out my things. So nothing unusual or not doable.

But maybe you find another one next year. I would not search if I am not prepared to buy. You will miss opportunities and be sorry later. Just check out the market to get a feeling for the prices and opportunities. We missed two prospects, we bid, but someone else was quicker and payd the deposit. Luck is an important factor, there are not many on the market and we searched in Europe and America.

I dont know where you are from, but for EU citizens a VAT payd status is also very important, it means 20% of the costs, so a boat for 240k VAT payd is the same as one boat for 200k without VAT payd from the buyers point of view.