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Lagoon4us · 25-02-2012, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Now I'm a bit confused, but that happens alot. If I read the sailing results correctly, then the Volvo 70 averaged 12 kts. Did I miscalculate? Is it a 600 nm race?

Lol i got the Volvo at 2days 8 hours elapsed over 600nm or (257 mile days)???

deckofficer · 25-02-2012, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Lol i got the Volvo at 2days 8 hours elapsed over 600nm or (257 mile days)???

Then I did crunch the numbers correctly. Nick's video didn't tell me anything I didn't know about the Sundeer, other than cooking and serving breakfast at 20 kts. I guess we can put this one to rest, because it is obvious the Sundeer is penalized every way to Sunday on handicapping. It is just plain fast.

**s/v Jedi** · 25-02-2012, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by catty

As for highland flings quote, I'm still trying to work out who the fool is, after reading the latest carib 600 results it appears as though nick is saying his beloved fully laden sundeer is the same speed as a stripped out volvo 70 .

Outrageous, when one checks out these speed comparisons straight from the Caribbean. Sailing Results

I suspect nick uses his very large motor more than hes letting on.

Regards

Here is a thing to remember: for monohulls, weight of toys aboard doesn't really hurt displacement performance like on a cat.

I have no clue how long the waterline of a Volvo 70 is... if it's over 64' than their hull speed is higher.

My bet is that these racers can do hull speed to windward, where I can't get to double digits. With 60 degrees apparent I can do hull speed; the racers at 30 apparent probably.

Also, racers plane way quicker because they are so light. I need 25 knots wind with working sails to start planing and have to admit never tried it with the spinnakers. Being a ketch, I might be hard to catch on a broad reach as I can fly two big assymmetric spinnakers of which one from a 10' retractable bowsprit, making me 74' length over all.

Here's some more of Dashew's sailing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfjVa7hIj0o

ciao!
Nick.

downunder · 25-02-2012, 18:17

I really don't believe a discussion of speed has anything to do with the increase in Multihull popularity.

Except I must listen when Nick says he prefers to buddy boat with multihulls as they are generally faster than monos where he roams.

catty · 25-02-2012, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Then I did crunch the numbers correctly. Nick's video didn't tell me anything I didn't know about the Sundeer, other than cooking and serving breakfast at 20 kts. I guess we can put this one to rest, because it is obvious the Sundeer is penalized every way to Sunday on handicapping. It is just plain fast.

No. You seem a little confused. Try rereading the posts. The average for the fully crewed volvo 70 was 257/day, ie 10.xx knots and nick is claiming 250 nm for his loaded short handed cruiser as a minimum .

Regards

**s/v Jedi** · 25-02-2012, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

I really don't believe a discussion of speed has anything to do with the increase in Multihull popularity.

Except I must listen when Nick says he prefers to buddy boat with multihulls as they are generally faster than monos where he roams.

I agree, it isn't about speed. I think in 50% of all cases it's the wife that decides it's gonna be a cat

I have been passed by monohulls often... crews sailing them with owners lounging, making sure not to notice us plain people who have to sail their boat themselves.... not the buddy boat types

ciao!
Nick.

**s/v Jedi** · 25-02-2012, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by catty

No. You seem a little confused. Try rereading the posts. The average for the fully crewed volvo 70 was 257/day, ie 10.xx knots and nick is claiming 250 nm for his loaded short handed cruiser as a minimum .

Regards

It is, but I bet these racers have to go upwind instead of downhill like us

You do know how much different that is right?

cheers,
Nick.

catty · 25-02-2012, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Here is a thing to remember: for monohulls, weight of toys aboard doesn't really hurt displacement performance like on a cat.

I have no clue how long the waterline of a Volvo 70 is... if it's over 64' than their hull speed is higher.

My bet is that these racers can do hull speed to windward, where I can't get to double digits. With 60 degrees apparent I can do hull speed; the racers at 30 apparent probably.

Also, racers plane way quicker because they are so light. I need 25 knots wind with working sails to start planing and have to admit never tried it with the spinnakers. Being a ketch, I might be hard to catch on a broad reach as I can fly two big assymmetric spinnakers of which one from a 10' retractable bowsprit, making me 74' length over all.

Here's some more of Dashew's sailing:

Sailing from the Marquesas to San Diego on a record breaking trip. - YouTube

ciao!
Nick.

So are you claiming now you are not as fast as a volvo 70 and therefore you don't do minimum 250 mile days?

I'm confused.

You have posted links to Dashews cruising speeds before via race/rally results in the past, and on reading his blog enty it turned out he ran the motor flat chat for most of the race, as motoring use was allowed. This is not sailing!!

Motoring averages belong in the power cruising forum.

ciao

deckofficer · 25-02-2012, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by catty

No. You seem a little confused. Try rereading the posts. The average for the fully crewed volvo 70 was 257/day, ie 10.xx knots and nick is claiming 250 nm for his loaded short handed cruiser as a minimum .

Regards

My math was bad, for some reason I figured 50 hours instead of 56 hours. As to Nick's claim of 250 nm day's run, I would say he didn't push it very hard. Even though I've been in and out of sailing over time, I have always followed Dashew and his cruising designs. He doesn't limit his designs for a favorable handicap, he builds only for the owner/cruiser, not racer, or charter.

Lagoon4us · 25-02-2012, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Then I did crunch the numbers correctly. Nick's video didn't tell me anything I didn't know about the Sundeer, other than cooking and serving breakfast at 20 kts. I guess we can put this one to rest, because it is obvious the Sundeer is penalized every way to Sunday on handicapping. It is just plain fast.

What Nick alluded to was the way of multi's in this country between 1970 till around 1990, they just were not accepted because they were FASTER than the handicap racers of the day.

Mix that with the snobbery of the controlling yacht clubs and multi's were OUT.....

The funniest thing i saw was Ian Johnston on his Crowther 28' "Staminade" (ex Twiggy) hunt Jack Rooklyn's Maxi yacht 'Apollo' in the Sydney to Hobart. Ian stood off at Sydney Heads watching the fleet come out and one after the other set course for Hobart.

Once the last yacht exited the harbour Ian set course for Hobart as well. Within 3 hours he was hard on Apollos tail with Rooklyn's crew trimming like mad not knowing it was a dreaded multi on his arse.(as in this sail on the horizon getting LARGER!!!)

He came along side the 15 man crewed Apollo crossed his bows, circled him threw a couple bottles of Staminade to the crew waved and yelled "see ya in Hobart Jack!!!!" hardened the sheets and disappeared over the horizon....

That set the multi-hull movement back many years, how could a homebuilt 30,000 dollar Tri beat a Million dollar Maxi like that???????

'Twas good stuff!!!

Lagoon4us · 25-02-2012, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I agree, it isn't about speed. I think in 50% of all cases it's the wife that decides it's gonna be a cat

I have been passed by monohulls often... crews sailing them with owners lounging, making sure not to notice us plain people who have to sail their boat themselves.... not the buddy boat types

ciao!
Nick.

Nick i just played your posted u-tube clip which i absolutely loved, my wife saw it and said YUK!!! .....You are on the money, we would not be retiring on a mono, that's just my sacrifice!
Cheers

**s/v Jedi** · 25-02-2012, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by catty

So are you claiming now you are not as fast as a volvo 70 and therefore you don't do minimum 250 mile days?

I'm confused.

You have posted links to Dashews cruising speeds before via race/rally results in the past, and on reading his blog enty it turned out he ran the motor flat chat for most of the race, as motoring use was allowed. This is not sailing!!

Motoring averages belong in the power cruising forum.

ciao

You're not confused, just a little disoriented because of all the high speed numbers

When you compare the hulls of Volvo Open 70 vs Sundeer, you will see they are very similar. The Volvo's are 6'6" longer, 2' wider (they are fatter), 8' deeper, same ballast but only 14 tons vs our 25 tons. Their working sails are 2,900 sq.ft., ours are 1,840 sq.ft.

Their record 24h is well over 560 nm while the Sundeer holds 384 nm as a record.

When you see them do a 24h avg. of 250 nm then they probably went upwind or had a lack of wind... because they can do more than double that distance in 24h.

When a Sundeer does a 250+ nm 24h then it is on a broad reach. Upwind in nice conditions we do 9 knots, in tough conditions we do 7 knots so that would be 216 nm at best... but we don't do that of course, we sail only down wind

ciao!
Nick.

deckofficer · 25-02-2012, 19:35

I would like to know how much fuel the Dashews burned for that 2900 nm. They did say their burn rate was 3 gph, but when I saw the pyrometer read 980*, that means the diesel was working pretty good, not real hard as that would approach 1200*.
If it was 3 gph average, that would be 850 gallons. Maybe that is why he no longer is building sailboats, just power boats that are quite efficient for fuel burn due to hull shape and LWL.