Farrier, Schionning, Crowther

[cwjohm]

Hers is my reference to Air Con

The boats you reference will all perform much the same but have very limited load carrying capacity. Forget generators, a/c, washing machine, significant refrigeration, heavy internal finishing etc etc - all of the aspects that make a boat comfortable and livable.

This is merely an expression of opinion. Hardly imposing it onto anybody else. It seems that when you express an opinion it is merely expressing an opinion, but when someone else expresses an opinion differing from yours it is "imposing" that view on others. Accordingly, reasonable discussion becomes impossible.

I have no doubt you and others will repost but I will leave it there as so many others have done before me, and have no further say on the matter.

[44'cruisingcat]

That's actually not an expression of opinion. It's presented as fact.

FYI, an opinion is usually preceded by "in my opinion" or "I think" or "I believe "...etc.

What you've done is to state that any of those boats absolutely could not have a genset, a washing machine, aircon, etc.

In fact they could.

You've also stated that these things are needed to make a boat livable. In reality they're not.

[Paul Howard]

I have owned and sailed two very different catamarans on extended voyages, one a Manta 38, the other a Walter Greene Even Keel 38. The Manta, as equipped is about twice the displacement of the EK38. The Manta has fixed keels, the EK has daggerboards and fixed rudders. My wife and I had made a circumnavigation of the world on a monohull and she was often seasick. She was rarely seasick on the Manta. But when we 'downsized' to the EK she was more often seasick than on the Manta. She said the EK was too bouncy - tended to jump over the waves with its lighter weight than the Manta did, but nothing like plowing through on the monohull.

I noticed the loading of both boats equally with loads of a percentage of the overall displacement. The Manta was heavier and carried more at less cost in speed and fuel. The Manta was higher maintenance because of the heavier weight and added complexity of carrying all the modern conveniences. In our high latitudes (north of the arctic circle, south around cape horn) sailing with the Manta we had been in winds of over 60knots and weathered Hurricane Sandy on the New Jersey shore at anchor in relative comfort - it was manageable. I have not been is such severe weather with the lighter EK, nothig more than 35knots, but that was more like the Manta in 50knots.
Daggerboards must be up at anchor or they rattle in the trunks. Even when sailing they sometimes rattle - I jam rubber wedges in the trunk to stop the rattling.
The Manta could be hauled and set on a flat surface, rudders clear by about 3" when setting on the keel. Drying on a sandbank was simple.

The daggerboard boat goes to windward at closer angle and faster than the fixed keel Manta. The daggerboard boat maintains higher speeds with tolerable motion in lighter winds, but the heavier Manta was much more comfortable in heavier winds. The Manta heaves-to easily and stays put in gale force winds. The daggerboard boat is 'fussier' to get to stay hove-to in higher winds.
There was little difference in 24hour miles made good between the Manta and the EK, though the EK was slightly higher. Both the catamarans averaged more than 60% higher daily runs than the monohull.

So, choose a fixed keel and heavier boat for longer distance rough water sailing to isolated places, the lighter boat is more fun from a sailing standpoint, but, to keep the wife happy, the heavier boat is better.

[lizardofoz]

Originally Posted by Epicurean

We are interested in buying a used, performance catamaran in the low-to-mid 40+' range with daggerboards. Not having a lot of experience sailing cats I don't know how to effectively compare what I see available. Currently there is at least one of each of the following: Crowther 220, Farrier F-41, Schonning Wilderness 1320 and Cosmo 1320. I realize a lot depends on loading. We want a liveaboard, ocean-crossing boat. Does anyone have insight/experience into how these compare as regards sailing ability and payload capacity?


Thanks.

47.6in Alloy Mumby Catamaran. Would arguably out pefor a Farrier or Schinning. I had one - top speed 23 knots racing and cruising full of customers food and water and fuel 21 knots and 19 knots. A number have circumnavigated. The designer builder has circumnavigated

[Epicurean]

Paul, I don't doubt that in very heavy seas big heavier boats are more comfortable, but not necessarily safer. In 30 years of sailing I've never been in winds greater than 50 kts, and then, if they even were fifty, once; in a heavy monohull. It was very comfortable hove-to. On the other hand I can't begin to count the days I've been in winds too light to sail that monohull. I could always motor to weather but I don't like motoring. I don't really expect a large difference in daily runs, but I like to sail. (And the calculations I've done indicate it's more expensive to sail than motor!)

The only cat I've sailed on had boards and they didn't rattle, but I certainly can see how they could. I notice that faster, lighter boats have the type of interior we like; spartan, with little wood trim. Wood is darker and has more maintenance issues. I like white.

And I've heard – it seems reasonable – that raised daggerboards are safer than minikeels in a cross sea because the boat can slide down the waves.

LizardofOz: There aren't any Al Mumby's in my size or price range for sale now. I like the idea of Al for the hull, but I think they need liners which are more maintenance and would tend to creak. Correct me if I'm mistaken. Are you saying for the same size Schionning or Farrier the Mumby would have better daily runs?

Thank you, both, very much for your input.

[Ydur]

In this context, wondering how Bénéteau's upcoming series of Excess sport catamarans will fit in the triangle cost, comfort and speed at all points of sail.

[Farang]

Originally Posted by lizardofoz

47.6in Alloy Mumby Catamaran. Would arguably out pefor a Farrier or Schinning.
"Schi-o-nning. Such a general statement! Under what conditions?. The OP asked about cats in the low to mid 40's not high 40's."

I had one - top speed 23 knots racing and cruising full of customers food and water and fuel 21 knots and 19 knots.
"So what?"

A number have circumnavigated. "Arguably more Schionnings have circumnavigated than Mumbbies."

The designer builder has circumnavigated

. " Again, so what, your point is?"

[Lance]

Google Grainger Catamarans for sale .
Y Hub

There is a big range of sizes and prices .
These boats equal comfort and performance .
I would recommend a Fusion 40 or a Wilderness 11 even a Whitehaven 11.8 , having owned and sailed all three extensively but you with a bigger family, I reckon you cant go past the Graingers to cover your requirements .
Performance Matters it is not just a preferance .