Faster Catamarans have a much less comfortable ride

[GaryJones]

I am totally sold on the benefit of having a performance cat on enabling you to pick the speed you want for the conditions!

What I wasn't certain about was how would a light catamaran choosing to sail at 8knots (for whatever reason) compare (motion and general comfort) to a heavier catamaran choosing to sail (assuming they had the choice) at the same speed?

I think that was my main concern from the video. I have heard people talk about a jerkier more immediate motion on lighter cats. I never thought of it being a potential blocker to me for a purchase. Whereas, if you take what is said in that video at face value, it possibly was for them?

Obviously I'll discover more about my personal preference as my experience grows (I am still extremely green when it comes to sailing and not getting any younger).

[admiralslater]

Gary if I could interject , afterI depower for improved comfort ,the boat is load well inside its capabilities , the hulls aren’t being pushed ,I will have a feef or two in . Where as a a heavier,bulkier cat will be working towards the limit generally. Also I have not so far change angle to improve ride . All things being equal I would chose waterline over weight

[Factor]

The only people who think a slower cat is better to sail are those that haven’t sailed a WELL DESIGNED faster one.

[GaryJones]

Originally Posted by Factor

The only people who think a slower cat is better to sail are those that haven’t sailed a WELL DESIGNED faster one.

If you watched the video, he sailed on both an Outremer 55 and a Schionning Waterline. Both well designed performance catamarans by most peoples definition. Or do you maintain that isn't the case?

Gary

[jmh2002]

Your initial request for clarification wasn't:
"is a Slower Cat better to sail than a faster one"... ?

It was:
"do Faster Catamarans have a much less comfortable ride"... ?

The simple answer in general is yes, they can do, assuming you are actually going that much faster in it.

That may not be the case if you slow down to the same speed as the "slower catamaran" though. Then the comfort factor will change.

And that will be more difficult to really quantify and will be much more boat (comparison) and condition specific.

As several people have mentioned, it's possible to have a faster boat, but sail it slower if the conditions warrant that.

I also mentioned earlier regarding waterline length. That's a factor too. So if you can add waterline, but not relative volume or weight (even if there is space, don't fill it up with stuff) you may be able to have a compromise more towards the best of both worlds.

The Outremer 55 in the video fits that type of category, and although he states that it was "pretty intimidating" let's not forget that this is a 55ft performance cat, and they were doing 14kn, no doubt showing off to a prospective buyer.

Slow down under 10kn and it will be less intimidating and more comfortable. It's all relative.

Generally the negative with the longer waterline boat is cost.

[Tupaia]

Define less comfortable. Going to sea isn't comfortable. Going to sea on a sailing boat is probably the worst choice from a comfort viewpoint. A sail boat is a wonderful way to travel but a lousy form of transport. The human body is far better equipped for sitting on a sofa in the club house watching the America's Cup.

I don't know any boat owner that wished their boat couldn't go any faster.

Otherwise there wouldn't be performance extras like a square top main for a flybridge condomaran.

Owners of slow catamarans sail them to the limit and when they are overtaken bring up the comfort issue, what they really mean is they can't afford a faster catamaran, don't think it is value for money, or can't justify it to the wife.

Speed, comfort or price pick any two.

[Moontide]

Generally speaking, for cats and monohulls, a lighter boat will have a quicker motion which some consider uncomfortable. Heavier boats have a more comfortable ride. If you have a fast light cat and the ride gets too bouncy you can always slow down some. Can make a giant difference in the ride.



Lighter cats tend to have narrower hulls and less carrying capacity so it comes back, as usual, to what do you plan to do with the boat. If you circumnavigating you will be spending way more time at anchor than underway so living conditions count. Also, unless trying to outrun a weather system or rushing to make port before dark speed is less of an issue at sea. So what if it takes 18 in stead of 17 days to get somewhere. IMHO a more comfortable ride for 18 days beats a bouncy ride for 17 days. Of course that way oversimplifies the issues, but more input for the OP to drop into the brain.

[Roshni]

Great piece. Looking at buying Catana 47 / 42 or if funds allow a Outremer 49 after owning modern performance 46ft. Any recommendations on cat. Great piece you wrote.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Moontide

...
So what if it takes 18 in stead of 17 days to get somewhere. IMHO a more comfortable ride for 18 days beats a bouncy ride for 17 days.
...

It’s much more of a difference than one day:

Slow boat @ 6.5 knots average for 18 days = 2808 miles

Faster boat @ 9.5 knots average over 2808 miles = 12 days

So you get an extra week at your destination. And if the wind direction was behind the beam, no less comfort.

It’s all relative. I spoke to guy a little while ago who is the skipper of a Gunboat 66. Last year it took them 3 days to sail from New Zealand to Port Denerau Fiji, and that included a 6 hour pit stop at Minerva Reefs, hundreds of additional miles out of the way, as the owner wanted to see them. They flew a hull at 20 knots plus most of time. Granted, they had six professional crew in addition to the owner and his wife.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

...
Owners of slow catamarans sail them to the limit and when they are overtaken bring up the comfort issue, what they really mean is they can't afford a faster catamaran, don't think it is value for money, or can't justify it to the wife.

...

Hmmm, there seem to be a lot of wives that don’t like to sail. Bummer for you.

We, that is my wife and I (well, she was a girlfriend at the time) were specifically looking for a performance oriented catamaran. But the reason wasn’t that we wanted to go faster!!

We bought a performance cat so that we could sail in a wider range of conditions. More speed sometimes is a happy benefit. Accepting modest accommodations was one of the costs, as was buying an older boat.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Hmmm, there seem to be a lot of wives that don’t like to sail. Bummer for you.

Not mine, she is a bigger speed freak than I am.

[smj]

The heavier cat will have full sail up trying to make speed in 20 kts of wind while the lighter cat is going just as fast or more with just a 100% jib. Not only is the heavier catamaran more stressed, so is their crew.

[barnakiel]

Yes. The heavier boat may require more sail up which translates to more stress on her crew.


But the lighter (in absolute terms) boat has higher G forces and these in their own way negatively influence our physical and mental condition.


Negative factors related to G forces nicely discussed in Dashews' books.


Also their take on building long, light (light in relation to size not in absolute numbers) hulls. Very interesting lecture and imho correct findings.



b.

[smj]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. The heavier boat may require more sail up which translates to more stress on her crew.


But the lighter (in absolute terms) boat has higher G forces and these in their own way negatively influence our physical and mental condition.


Negative factors related to G forces nicely discussed in Dashews' books.


Also their take on building long, light (light in relation to size not in absolute numbers) hulls. Very interesting lecture and imho correct findings.



b.

And the more sail area also ads stress to the boats structure.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by smj

And the more sail area also ads stress to the boats structure.

Yes, this was well known back in the middle IOR days when designers started looking at rating benefits of less sail area and lighter displacement (Bruce Farr for eg) vs the Ron Holland and German Frers school of going for heavier and more powerful boats. The lighter boats had trouble keeping up upwind but absolutely trounced the heavier boats reaching and downwind, and were better in lighter conditions on all points of sail.

A lighter, more performance oriented cruising boat will generally have smaller sails and lighter gear. Generally wins all around for cruising, but more lively for any given sea condition. And less load carrying capacity, unless you go for long waterlines as per the Dashew philosophy mentioned earlier. Their FPB line of motor yachts also follow this line of design.