Features you wanted on you liveaboard cat?

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by smj

The more gadgets on the boat the more gadgets that break. In the end some get sick of chasing parts and making repairs to things they think are essential to make their cruising enjoyable, and end up selling the dream.

I understand. However, we don't approach the topic from that angle. The same things happen ashore. Stuff breaks, or just stops working. That would be like me telling my wife "No honey, just look out the window, or do some knitting. If we buy a TV, it will someday break." Life is for living. The title of this thread includes the term "liveaboard". To each his/her own. I'm done "camping".

[smj]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

I understand. However, we don't approach the topic from that angle. The same things happen ashore. Stuff breaks, or just stops working. That would be like me telling my wife "No honey, just look out the window, or do some knitting. If we buy a TV, it will someday break." Life is for living. The title of this thread includes the term "liveaboard". To each his/her own. I'm done "camping".

Difference being it’s much easier to source parts and servicemen onshore as opposed to a remote tropical island or 1000 miles offshore.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by smj

Difference being it’s much easier to source parts and servicemen onshore as opposed to a remote tropical island or 1000 miles offshore.

Exactly. As complexity grows, more things break and become harder to fix. Too many repairs kill the fun.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Exactly. As complexity grows, more things break and become harder to fix. Too many repairs kill the fun.

For me, it doesn't matter...my strength has always been adaptability and love of change. if I am staying near civilization (very un-PC of me I know) like I am this year, here in the Med, then any of the nice little gadgets I have can be fixed as they would be in a house. Washer breaks? Get a new one. But in the middle of a passage to the atolls it breaks? Meh, either fix it, or just pretend it never existed and carry on the old fashioned way until I'm back. Same goes for electric winches, TVs, dive compressor, you name it. If I can fix it, I will. If I can't or don't want to, then it's fine, life will go on, and my boat will be a little more KISS, back to hand-grinding, books, snorkeling...I'll live. But until then, why deprive yourself? I used to be a live out of a daypack hike around the world for years at a time with only one shirt washed each night in the hostel sink kinda person, but even at 41, i'm tooo old for that chit now

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

For me, it doesn't matter...my strength has always been adaptability and love of change. if I am staying near civilization (very un-PC of me I know) like I am this year, here in the Med, then any of the nice little gadgets I have can be fixed as they would be in a house. Washer breaks? Get a new one. But in the middle of a passage to the atolls it breaks? Meh, either fix it, or just pretend it never existed and carry on the old fashioned way until I'm back. Same goes for electric winches, TVs, dive compressor, you name it. If I can fix it, I will. If I can't or don't want to, then it's fine, life will go on, and my boat will be a little more KISS, back to hand-grinding, books, snorkeling...I'll live. But until then, why deprive yourself? I used to be a live out of a daypack hike around the world for years at a time with only one shirt washed each night in the hostel sink kinda person, but even at 41, i'm tooo old for that chit now

One thing for that it's really hard to go back to the old fashioned way is an electric toilet that breaks in the middle of a passage. Going back to a bucket in the cockpit sucks!

One of the reasons to keep manual toilets, and a spare pump!

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

For me, it doesn't matter...my strength has always been adaptability and love of change. if I am staying near civilization (very un-PC of me I know) like I am this year, here in the Med, then any of the nice little gadgets I have can be fixed as they would be in a house. Washer breaks? Get a new one. But in the middle of a passage to the atolls it breaks? Meh, either fix it, or just pretend it never existed and carry on the old fashioned way until I'm back. Same goes for electric winches, TVs, dive compressor, you name it. If I can fix it, I will. If I can't or don't want to, then it's fine, life will go on, and my boat will be a little more KISS, back to hand-grinding, books, snorkeling...I'll live. But until then, why deprive yourself? I used to be a live out of a daypack hike around the world for years at a time with only one shirt washed each night in the hostel sink kinda person, but even at 41, i'm tooo old for that chit now

In complete agreement! We plan to have an excellent assortment of tools aboard, as well as spares for items that are well known to sometimes go haywire. With that said, rabbi brings up a good point about electric toilets. If you want to spend weeks or months at remote atolls in complete comfort, you just have to roll the 'sea dice'. With the current state of tech advancement, and since we plan to have 24/7 high-speed Internet ($$$) wherever the anchor is set, maybe the day will soon arrive when Amazon can send us a new electric toilet and an 'AI bot plumber named Hal' via overnight Mach 1 'sea-drone mini-copter'. Camping at sea? Only if I want to pitch a lean-to on the atoll beach for some romantic reason -- with French wine and a bonfire.

[rabbi]

Even a 50ft lagoon is still camping at sea compared to the amenities found at a modern home. Is all about choosing the level of camping one is ok with and swallowing the associated negative side effects like weight, cost and maintenance.


That said i once owned a lagoon 410 that came with generator, huge watermaker, three air condition units, dive compressor, fridge and freezer, all electric toilets, a huge battery bank, huge inverter, household washing machine, etc.
A comfortable but relatively heavy and slow boat. But I spent quite some time and money on these gadgets. Its not about the 5 bucks for new wiring to the electric toilet - its about the two days it took me to identify the root cause why the toilet would not flush well.

All following boats had -by choice - manual toilets, no generator, no air condition, no freezer, no washing machine. Ok, i would get a light camping style washing machine for cruising outside the med again but here cheap laundries are plenty.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Even a 50ft lagoon is still camping at sea compared to the amenities found at a modern home. Is all about choosing the level of camping one is ok with and swallowing the associated negative side effects like weight, cost and maintenance.


That said i once owned a lagoon 410 that came with generator, huge watermaker, three air condition units, dive compressor, fridge and freezer, all electric toilets, a huge battery bank, huge inverter, household washing machine, etc.
A comfortable but relatively heavy and slow boat. But I spent quite some time and money on these gadgets. Its not about the 5 bucks for new wiring to the electric toilet - its about the two days it took me to identify the root cause why the toilet would not flush well.

All following boats had -by choice - manual toilets, no generator, no air condition, no freezer, no washing machine. Ok, i would get a light camping style washing machine for cruising outside the med again but here cheap laundries are plenty.

HUH !! you live in a castle ?
I absolutely agree with your strategy re gadgets. Every gadget cost money and then study manual so proper maintenance can be done and, schedule maintenance and execute. And then some maintenance can be done by professional only, so extra complications and extra time eaten away from your life. And let s not start talking about increased chance of fire, etc....

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

With that said, rabbi brings up a good point about electric toilets. If you want to spend weeks or months at remote atolls in complete comfort, you just have to roll the 'sea dice'.

Done and dusted, thanks to the previous owner, who thought like me as well. There were 2 electric heads at some point installed, he pulled them for good old manuals. And yeah, I have spares aplenty for them, everything but the bowl

As for the other philosophy, I get it, I do. Simple feels good. If it didn't, I wouldn't have lived out of a backpack or a 40 year old vehicle for fun as long as I did! But a sailboat is already a hugely complex machine...adding a washing machine to save 6 hours a week schlepping laundry to shore (if even possible) or a watermaker (self explanatory) is not making things that much harder vis a vis the payoff (assuming you have the cash and space). As for a generator in a far-flung place, it's a redundancy if nothing else. You already have solar and wind generators I assume...those things can break too, batteries can start fires too. And like I said, when the luxury item breaks, you can putter with it for something to do if you like that sort of thing, or just pretend you never had it and THEN start walking with that 10 kg bag of stinky clothes....

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

HUH !! you live in a castle ?
I absolutely agree with your strategy re gadgets. Every gadget cost money and then study manual so proper maintenance can be done and, schedule maintenance and execute. And then some maintenance can be done by professional only, so extra complications and extra time eaten away from your life. And let s not start talking about increased chance of fire, etc....

No castle but a large, modern and comfortable brick & mortar house.

Does a Lagoon have filtered forced air ventilation, permanently exchanging air throughout so nothing ever gets damp or smelly?
Does it have a household washing machine and dryer that can run without anyone noticing anywhere?
Unlimited mains power without an annoying genset humming along?
Hot water for an hour long shower?
Does it have a full size workshop for whatever you want to do? I mean full sized, not something where you and your tools just barely squeeze in.
Does it have literally 100 sockets, several in every corner?
Sound insulation like in a brick & mortar house or does one wake up in the night when it rains, wind picks up or a powerboat passes by?
A nice fireplace when its cold?
Heated floors instead of forced air heating or radiators?
An integrated vacuum cleaning system with an external exhaust so its not just stirring up the dust?
Cheap unlimited 100Mbit internet?
Triple pane windows that never see any condensation no matter how cold it is?


I know ... plenty of gadgets, and many of them are possible (but very expensive) on a boat. But in a house these are durable commercial household gadgets, and easily repaired or replaced by DHL overnight. It just doesn't work like that on a boat away from civilization and a harsh marine environment.
How often have you heard horror stories of marine refrigeration and how often has someone complained about his fridge at home?

So yes even a 50ft cat is still somewhat enhanced camping. Like those mobile homes that are or rent on some camping grounds.


Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy with this enhanced camping style living. Everytime we are on the boat for longer periods we notice how little we actually need to be happy.

Its just that even a boat considered luxurious by most is close to camping for those not used to boats.

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Its just that even a boat considered luxurious by most is close to camping for those not used to boats.

I don't think that is right - even a simple boat is luxurious compared to camping -

- a nice bed that (in our boat ) never gets wet and is always ready for a quick snooze. Camping I have to pump up the Exped and then unroll the sleeping bag.
- lots of places to sit - camping I usually leave a chair behind because of weight
- water and food - after 7 days camping I start getting sick of my food and carrying more than 3 days water is a really hard. On the boat we have luxury with a month or 3 of supplies and water to shower in.

I could give 20 more examples where camping is nothing like a boat.

The idea that boats are like camping doesn't stack up to the camping I have done. I have never walked 40km in a day with 20 kg on my back easily, yet my boat will take itself along without me doing almost anything. 40km? The boat can do that in a morning whilst I make the bread.

A boat is a home, and a house. We humans are of the same DNA that lived in caves and slept by the fire on the ground. You don't need anything but a safe bed and something to eat. Everything else is a convenience that someone can make money out of you by selling to you.

I go camping and sailing to get away from consumerism, yet it follows us if we let it. My boat has better views than any house, a better swimming pool than any house, better movability than any house, better airflow than almost any house, better neighbourhood selection than any house, and at 38ft is bigger than we need. I go cruising to learn how little other organisms, and other people, on this earth need to live, and to learn what I truly need as well. Stuff just gets in the way.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

I don't think that is right - even a simple boat is luxurious compared to camping

For you and me yes.
For most average consumerist urban people who are not used to hiking / RVing / boating any boat but a large superyacht is just like living on a campground or in a mobile home.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rabbi

For you and me yes.
For most average consumerist urban people who are not used to hiking / RVing / boating any boat but a large superyacht is just like living on a campground or in a mobile home.

fair enough. but this is because they do not know any better.

They believe life now is better than any other time in history and that people live longer than ever. Both are cheap lies propagated by media day after day.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

adding a washing machine to save 6 hours a week schlepping laundry to shore (if even possible)

I'd say: Switch to shorts & shirts and wear them until it smells

But I agree the big laundry every few weeks for towels and bed linens is a chore. We always do it when we are near some shoreside laundry (most often we use resort / hotel laundries). Or one the rare occasion we are in the marina.


Watermaker is in my view much more important (even in the Med). I hate schlepping tons of bottled water, and shore / tank water doesn't taste good enough for drinking and is often of dubious quality.
Thats why we have a watermaker and a separate tank & pump & faucet for drinking water. I don't have to care about quality of shoreside water anymore as its just for showers & cleaning.


I'm not against gadgets, but one should make a well informed decision which toys to get. What is important, what is not? Just checking all options often leads to headaches down the road.

[Thumbs Up]

i don't have hardly any of those things on my catamaran. But at least I have a catamaran.