forward cockpits and picture windows

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

This good post got lost in the mix on the previous page, and needs some consideration too.

Well the idea is that the forward facing door isn't "lightweight " in terms of strength.

Similarly, large windows can be made strong. Bulletproof even.

[owly]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Um... I am a multihull sailor, too, so I'm not sure what you are talking about? And you can even see my other posts in this thread in that regard.

But in survival conditions (at sea) I would still not recommend surfing as a survival tactic, and I think that I am good company there.

Your comment about crossing a bar is unrelated.

I don't think anybody suggested "surfing" as a survival tactic. I think somebody conflated the ability to skate ahead of the waves with "surfing".... Surfing really is simply letting the boat run, and that is not a good thing.....however pulling warps or a drogue to control "surfing" so that you do not plow into the back of the next wave, while running with the waves seems to be an effective storm tactic. The simple "Abbot Drogue" which is something you create rather than buy, and amounts to pulling a warp with weights slid on it, allows you to control both the amount of drag, and the distance behind you of the drogue to keep the boat safely situated in the seaway, seems a good alternative to something such as the Jordan Series Drogue.
In any case the ability of a multihull to move with the waves... skate away from them / ahead of them is a survival advantage. This applies both when in line with the wave train and ahull. Burying the bows in the back of the wave ahead is never a good thing. There is a "safe zone", and the object is really to stay within that safe zone. The fact that a multihull moves on the surface easily is the main survival advantage if used correctly. We don't have self righting like those weighted clowns, and monohulls, and cannot unload gust loads by heeling, so the ability to move easily is the safety valve.



H.W.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

But in survival conditions (at sea) I would still not recommend surfing as a survival tactic, and I think that I am good company there.

Your comment about crossing a bar is unrelated.

FWIW, I agree with you about not surfing in survival conditions. Surfing suggests uncontrolled high speeds. I'd personally avoid that.

And the bar crossing video is totally unrelated to this. It was an amazing surf that I personally wouldn't take the chance doing and it could have made an equally, no - greater, example of what not to do.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

I have crossed plenty of bars, even Coffs and others on the east coast.

Coffs doesn't have a bar (apart from at the Yacht Club)

[Factor]

Originally Posted by daletournier

The fastnet and 98 sydney to hobart arent valid arguments. They knew weather was coming in the 98 race but they chose to race,they could of pulled in, some did..

Yes - well cruisers dont get that luxury do they. And in any event the S2H is a very valid, most life was lost on what some might call, Wholesome seagoing designs

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Icarus

A lot of cats and monos are not designed to cross oceans. IMHO any vessel which have escape hatches in case the turn turtle are inherently not safe. Cats loose stability quite quickly...
But then they are excellent for having Lates at sundown.

You carry an EPIRB?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The delivery crew wasn't very impressed with the construction and design of the boat! I suspect that the owner wasn't too impressed either...

Jim

Delivery Crews are rarely unbiased assessors of boats, any issues it is almost ALWAYS the boats fault, never the crew. Amazing that. Spoken to many and been amazed at how various incidents such as groundings could possibly be the boats fault (BTW I do many many deliveries)

[Factor]

Safe - not safe - not 100% sure But Of course the key consideration is that the leopard style of forward cockpit with massive overhanging brow and deep flat surfaces will sail to windward not well. Its like holding a bucket opening first out of a car window.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Palarran

FWIW, I agree with you about not surfing in survival conditions. Surfing suggests uncontrolled high speeds. I'd personally avoid that.

And the bar crossing video is totally unrelated to this. It was an amazing surf that I personally wouldn't take the chance doing and it could have made an equally, no - greater, example of what not to do.

Agree totally.. 18.2kts on a Catalac 900 scared the crap outa me..

[dfelsent]

One of our many (15 or so?) local fast ferries. 2014 within a few miles of the coast. My guess is doing 25 knots or so. Dug into a set of waves and blew out a few pilothouse windows.
Yes going fast but inshore and high up.
I’ll skip the big glass thanks.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1982/10...8996404798400/

I’ll skip the big glass there too. thanks.

I know that there are far more likely ways to get hurt or die but risk mitigation is a thing.

You pay your money and take your chances.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Factor

Yes - well cruisers dont get that luxury do they. And in any event the S2H is a very valid, most life was lost on what some might call, Wholesome seagoing designs

Don't get what luxury? If you mean don't get to pull in when weather is coming, well yes they do, and boats did during that race,as I have been doing down the African coast, as I have done down the Australian coast, as I have done in places like the Philippines .

As for being caught in the middle of the ocean while on a long passage the likely hood is slim if sailing the coconut run in the right seasons. As I've said before, strong blows and gales aren't life threatening storms, few see these storms, very very few see anything like what happened in the Sydney to Hobart.

I actually live everyday with full time liveaboard cruisers that are sailing the world, and have done for a long time, I'm not in an armchair reading multihull magazines and I can tell you that very few if any have seen a real storm because they sail the right places in the right seasons and are prudent. Get of the traditional tracks and head to higher latitudes a long way from land, then that changes the game.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Agree totally.. 18.2kts on a Catalac 900 scared the crap outa me.. [emoji3]

Surfing in any vessel isn't a great tactic, I've served at 16-17k in my catalina, to much can go wrong at those speeds.

This is where your little Wharram is cool, center of bouncy such that they don't surf as easily as fatter transom boats.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Agree totally.. 18.2kts on a Catalac 900 scared the crap outa me..

I remember that story - Biscay right. What I always like about your stories is that you have one and made it to the end ok. Keep on keeping on my friend.

[daletournier]

The getting caught in a storm or violent storm narrative comes up regularly just like "aren't you scared of pirates"

I'm no authority, just a guy that cruises BUT when I think about the boats I personally know that have been lost (and it's not that many) it's never been due to a storm.

Two this year, one a cat and one a steel mono failed due to delayed maintaince, yes they saw rough weather but nothing close to a storm.

The other more common than a storm thing is hitting something, which also isn't that common. Several boats I know have hit whales, one cat and three monos. One mono sunk very quickly, another mono and the cat were taking on water but were able to stem the flow and a glass deefoot recieved no damage.

I'm just not seeing the "storms" destroying modern light weight monos or cats at all, let alone because they have large windows etc........ where are the facts!!!

In regards to a cat is safer than a mono or a traditional mono is safer than all, well there's just so many variables it makes the discussion silly, people just arguing their choices.

So, how many of you have actually been in a genuine storm, not the fish I caught was this big storm but a real 50-70k sustained storm? Sustained is important this is what builds seas. I haven't, I've been in many violent squalls and one sustained strong gale and never once were either of my modern designed boats threatened.

[44'cruisingcat]

A far more common cause of loss of life is falling overboard, and it could be argued that a forward cockpit or "workpit" greatly reduces the probability of that.