Fusion 40 Catamarans

[ireaney]

The Fusion cats are now being made in Thailand and when you add in the freight of 2 x 40ft containers at approx £3000.00 per container and then add the UK VAT to the price they are working out at AU$178,600.00 or £76,000.00.

[44'cruisingcat]

That's more like I expected. It's also why I'm not building a Fusion. I couldn't afford one.

The kit for my boat cost $70,000 Au. I would say you could build one to the Fusion stage - bare hull and deck, painted - for around $80,000 Au. (And easier to finish inside) I expect to be able to have my boat completed, in the water and sailing for less than the basic Fusion kit costs.

The trade-off is the amount of work involved of course.

[ireaney]

I can't quite afford it yet, well I don't think so, I will be doing some costings in the New Year to see exactly what it is llikely to cost using a professional boat builder in the Uk.

What are you building, sounds interesting?

[44'cruisingcat]

I'm building an Oram 44C. There are a few photo's in the gallery.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...00&userid=3477

Here are some specs:

L.O.A.44 ft 13.35 m Beam (max)21 ft 6.4 m Sail Area - Main and Genoa 860 sq ft 80 sq m Displacement - Cruising 11464 lbs 5200 kgs Engine - twin outboards 9.9-20 hpWater - Cruising 105 gals 400 lts Fuel - Cruising 26 gals100 lts Headroom in hulls - Max 6.4 ft 1.95 m Headroom in bridgedeck - Max 6.4 ft 1.95 m



Bob agreed to some changes to suit my height - I'm 6'8 - the sheer has been raised by 6 inches, and the beam increased by 12 inches, so now the headroom is plenty for me, and the beam is closer to 6.8 metres. (Unfortunately the weight will also have gone up, probably by around 200kg)

[ireaney]

Sounds great and she is looking good, does the cat help.

I can understand why you are building your own, at 6ft 8in you certainly need to build a custom boat, I assume that is you next to the dagger board.

I take my hat off to you and admire your commitment to building it yourself, looking forward to seeing how she develops.

Cheers
Ian

[fastcat435]

I have just seen a Fusion 40 in parts as it came out of a container in South Africa and I noticed a couple of things I did not like.
The infusion was poor in some locations , even had a few dryer spots.
The gell coat used was very thin in some locations and thick in others , both not good. 600 grams per sqiure meter is perfect but only achivable with a sprayed layer and a very good and experienced gell coat spray painter . To thick a layer will give cracks and to thin will wear thru fast.
The other item noticed was extremely fine shaped hulls , good for making a well performing cat but with very low payload.
The other part that I does not feel good to me was the way to bond the bridge deck to the hulls and the top deck. This is all in separate parts and it will give a lot of extra weigth of all this bonding.
This might just be in my head because we infuse the complete cat in 2 parts , a complete hull and a complete deck giving it more rigidity with less weight.
Looks are great I think, nice design and a good idea to make it so the parts will fit a container.
I have attached a picture of a just totally infused FastCat 435
The boat insides is in yellow because we use the Twaron/Kevlar impact protection system in the hull

[ireaney]

FastCat435, having read your comments in 'Cats out of China' and now those above, it appears to me that as a manufacturer you are having to be as critical as possible of the Fusion 40, which as a great threat of competition to you I can understand why, as the Fusion 40 has seen great success in the last 2 years by selling far more units than the Fastcats, are a hugely better looking cat with far better use of it's internal layouts giving excellent living space with superb performance at a sensible price.
IMHO the FastCats (from your figures) may certainly be a faster cat but more in line with that of a bare bones racer lacking cruising comforts which would be great for weekends or day sailings but at a very high cost.
I did look seriously at the FastCats on their performance alone but felt the cost could not be justified.
Maybe you should sail a finished Fusion 40 and speak with some of the professional builders of them to get their opinions.

[fastcat435]

Hallo Ireaney
I think A forum is meant to give a opinion and that is all I did.
You are right we have only build and sold 65 FastCats over the last 6 years in sizes from 39 ft up to 52 ft. and I am sure more Fusion 40 s have been build and sold with their special way of building and construction. However the Fusion is a total different type of cat for a different public and in no way a treath to us , we are sold out until the end of 2011 and have stopped selling until we can up our production in our new factory.
The FastCat has been extended to 46 ft , the roof has been raised to accomodate a headroom of almost 7 feet thru out the boat . As I stated before I think the concept is good but Quality of workmanship is lacking in the only hull deck parts as coming out of a container, I have seen coming from Thailand at a professional boat builder in South Africa.
Another thing I noticed as a critical boat builder is that in the infusion process the foam was not tight together creating resin rich spots and because of that poor infused foam parts next to these runs.If you want my opninion they have a lot to learn in Thailand before a quality boat comes out.
It is the best way to staple the foam together with nylon staples prior to the infusion process becasue the moment you apply vacuum the foam starts to shift and creates resin runs that we want to avoid at any cost.
This in only my 10 cents worth

Warm Greetings

Gideon Goudsmit

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

... The FastCat has been extended to 46 ft , the roof has been raised to accomodate a headroom of almost 7 feet thru out the boat . Gideon Goudsmit

Where & how is the extra 3' of length utilized?

[fastcat435]

The nose is extended to a finer entry adding 8 inches , it will be a addition to the present nose and it is sacrificial , the waterline lenght is also lengtened with 8 inches becasue the new nose comes down all the way
The rear is extended with 22 inches to ad diving platform no extra waterline kenght here just added comfort space.
The roof is raised with 40 mm or 1.5 inches to increase the headroom to a touch below 7 feet thru out the boat see picture

Greetings and a good years end and good sailing in 2008

p.s.n this picture the nose and transom are still in the original size and lenght these parts will be added later.

[cat man do]

Hi Gideon, the Fastcat should have a higher payload than the Fusion.

The other item noticed was extremely fine shaped hulls , good for making a well performing cat but with very low payload.

It is 3 feet longer and soon to be 6 feet longer than the Fusion

The FastCat has been extended to 46 ft

Was this done by Fastcat in an attempt to get back some performance?

Dave

[fastcat435]

The reason to extend the bows was to get less spray when sailing over 15 knots and this happens a lot. the performance could not be bettered with the present lenght/ width and weigth.The only way would be adding a rotating wing mast for 15 % extra push and this is an option. we now have the FastCat 460 as she will be called down to a weigth of 5200 kilo,s ready to sail with a Rigid inflatable, davits, outboard, hard top bimini a full set of sails including 2 gennakers , a code zero and everything needed except crew water and diesel.
We have seen top speeds of 27 knots but that is hard work 22 knots is easy with wind speeds of 25 knots.
The actual Payload according to CE A certificatioin is 6800 kilo excluding a full tank of diesel and water. Our advice is not to load up the boat over 11500 kilo total weight in order to keep her performing well. this means that loading her up with a total of 6300 kilos or 13900 lbs and that is easy because items like a water maker, generator,fridge and freezer are already included in the 5200 kilo.
The actual waterline lenght will be 42 ft 10 inches after the extension making her one of the longest waterlined cats in the 46 ft class and by far the with the lowest weight.
Greetings and a good years end

[jimgard]

With reference to #38

I feel it is a shame when people with a vested interest in their own product endeavour to denigrade another. The success of the Fusion within Australia and abroad speaks for itself. Jim Gard, CEO Fusion Catamarans

[fastcat435]

Hello Jim

I do not think you read the complete message, I mentioned that the Boat is very nice looking and a good concept speccially that it can be shipped in a Container. If you want my opinion on the Hull i have seen in South Africa get back to me @ gideon@africancats.com I can give you a few pointers to sort out the very few quality issue,s.
Warm greetings and a good 2008

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by jimgard

With reference to #38

I feel it is a shame when people with a vested interest in their own product endeavour to denigrade another. The success of the Fusion within Australia and abroad speaks for itself. Jim Gard, CEO Fusion Catamarans

G'day Jim, welcome to the forum. I wonder if you could answer a question a couple of people have asked me, and I can't answer. Are the Fusion 40 kits sold in Australia still manufactered in Australia, or has it gone offshore like so many others have?