Fusion 40 or Spirited 380?

[freetime]

Or do you recomend any other brand like Bob oram?

I want a company build the boat in SA or Europe? And build for water sailing">blue water sailing with my options.

If you just compare these boats, what do you say?

[44'cruisingcat]

Depends on what you want and can afford, and whether you are building for yourself, or paying someone else. The Fusion is the most expensive kit. It takes the least building though. The Spirited is a cheaper kit, but more work. The Fusion is bigger and more roomy than the Spirited 380 but will sail quite a bit slower. It will carry a better payload though.

You could build an Oram 44C for less money than either of those two, in fact you'd launch a pretty well fitted out 44C for less than the Fusion KIT, and slightly more work than the Spirited to build. It will offer similar performance and payload to the Spirited, but is more roomy, particularly the saloon/cockpit area. It has a smaller rig than either, so is easier for short handed crews.

The 44C offers much more flexibility in layout and propulsion options than the other two, but requires more owner input to the layout. Bob doesn't really spend much time designing an interior, because all of his builders seem to want different things. There's around 10 44C's built or building, and they are all completely different in layout.

If you're looking to simply buy a boat, there is a 44C currently being built to be sold in Western Australia. I'm guessing it will sell for a similar price to a Spirited. At this point if a buyer was interested he would have many options to customise the boat.

[catty]

Originally Posted by freetime

Or do you recomend any other brand like Bob oram?

I want a company build the boat in SA or Europe? And build for blue water sailing with my options.

If you just compare these boats, what do you say?

44c is pretty much right in his appraisal . However beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you have to live with your choice which ever it is.

Also from the spirited 380 web page we have.......The SAS system combines moulded hulls and decks with flat panel construction to achieve a well proportioned, good-looking design. The overall look of the boat is similar to a production-style appearance with smooth clean lines and unlike many other ‘kit’ boats, the 380 has no unsightly chines. Chines also create more work for the builder when taping and fairing. Fairing chines is much more involved and requires more skill than fairing a round-bilged boat which most people wouldn't realize.

[44'cruisingcat]

The chines are mostly out of sight underwater.

Round bilges add the complication, weight and expense of having to build floors too. I actually found fairing the chines to be pretty easy. A mate is still fairing his round bilge hulls, has been for around 8 months, and still isn't finished. (Not a Spirited though)

A very good idea for anyone thinking of building a Spirited would be to talk to some people who are doing it. I know 3 being built locally. It's very interesting to hear what they have to say about their dealings with Craig Schionning.

[catty]

pictures spirited 38, oram 38, fussion 40. Compare?

[raw1]

Have you looked at http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au.
Cheers, Ron.

[freetime]

Originally Posted by raw1

Have you looked at http://www.schionningdesigns.com.au.
Cheers, Ron.

I have, but Schionning have so many different models.

[freetime]

Xtra Chilli 44c....
Looks good, anyone know any pages(except)oram´s with more info and pics...

[Whimsical]

Originally Posted by freetime

I have, but Schionning have so many different models.

The choice is fairly easy though. If you are lookng for a cruiser and don't like the chined hull then opt for a Cosmos. Then pick a size, easy. The hard bit, and this will be the difficulty for any semi custom boat, is selecting a quality builder.
There is another option if you are looking at 38 feet. The Oceanic kits are now available. Schionning design and modular construction similar to the fusion and far better IMHO.
http://www.rmkmarine.com.au/

Mike

[freetime]

Originally Posted by Whimsical

The choice is fairly easy though. If you are lookng for a cruiser and don't like the chined hull then opt for a Cosmos. Then pick a size, easy. The hard bit, and this will be the difficulty for any semi custom boat, is selecting a quality builder.
There is another option if you are looking at 38 feet. The Oceanic kits are now available. Schionning design and modular construction similar to the fusion and far better IMHO.
http://www.rmkmarine.com.au/

Mike

Thanks, why do you say oceanic is better in your IMHO, is it the design or price.... or a better/easier way to build?

Do you know if any Oceanic is finished? Would like to se some pics on a boat in water...
























The Cosmos 1320´s steeringpositions is my style, i like it very much.

But why a cosmos before a wilderness?

[Whimsical]

I looked at the Oceanic and the fusion before going for the wilderness.
The Oceanic was a fair way off but the commitment of the builder was impressive. I don't know if any kits have shipped, you would have to ask Richard at RMK. Until some boats are on the water it remains an unknown. Pricing at the time was extremely competative, not sure what it is now

The Fusion. I spent quite a time going over one under construction and wasn't impressed either with the aesthetics, method of assembly nor the perception of quality. They have backed down from the glue it together approach and have changed to taped and faired. At that stage there was no furniture kits and it seemed little interest in how the boats were to be fitted out or what materials would be used. A light wieght is claimed but I have seen photos of boats dragging their transoms. There are supposed to be some very lightwieghts racing but as I understand not very successfully. The numbers seem to be good so I am not really sure why. I gather that they now have furniture so wieghts may be less of an issue but I am less impressed with production being moved to a cheap labour location. Fine if the supervision and training is top notch but a lot of room for a disaster if lacking.

This left the self construction route and I got seduced with the Bi-Rig concept. There were many boats of other lengths that consistantly floated above the design waterline and many testamonials that the boats performed better than Jeff Schionning claimed, he seems quite conservative in his claims which is very reassuring. While the Schionning is a little more complex to build I think the effort is more than worth it from many perspectives. Being full epoxy construction was also a factor as the other kits are not no matter how they phrase the description with words like modified epoxy.

If I would be ha[ppy with the shorter length and conventional rig the Oceanic would probably be near my first choice. I could go on for pages and pages about my likes and predjudices but I will spare you all that.

Mike

[freetime]

Did you look at Oram 44c?

I have sent a mail to oceanic and will probably receive little info on when the first boat is launched and some new pics probably. I don´t know right now if i need a bigger boat?

[Whimsical]

I did look at Orams boats but there are a number of aspects that don't fit with my logic so I ruled it out very early.

I think the smallest boat possible that meets the mission profile is the best option but anticipated payload mainly drives the decission. This is further complicated by the sailing ability, especially light air, in relation to engine size and fuel carried. I spent quite a lot of time thinking and adding up numbers before I came up with 2 ton and a more sailing oriented design.

I feel many people, especially new boaters, compare their expected requirements to a land based existance and won't accept any compromise, hence we end up with a plethora of boats that get labeled with some very derogatory stereotypes such as condomaran.

Mike

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by catty

pictures spirited 38, oram 38, fussion 40. Compare?

Not really a valid comparison. For the price of a Spirited you could build two Mangoes, a Fusion 3.

The Mango design has also largely been superceded by the 39C.

However I was referring to the 44C, which is still be significantly cheaper than the Spirited, and much cheaper than the Fusion. Likely faster than both too.

[freetime]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Not really a valid comparison. For the price of a Spirited you could build two Mangoes, a Fusion 3.

The Mango design has also largely been superceded by the 39C.

However I was referring to the 44C, which is still be significantly cheaper than the Spirited, and much cheaper than the Fusion. Likely faster than both too.

Is it a 44c on my pics in this thread. For me it looks very good.

Do you have any more links to 44c owners/boats. The Oram page is not top of internet!
If you can build it cheaper it´s always interesting if the result is simular.