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**Tupaia** · 27-07-2021, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alueva

That’s a fair question: what’s the right size? We are a patchwork family, we need room for us two oldies and four teenagers (and plenty of surfboards). The kids will be coming and going, most likely in a three months on and off rhythm. I was also thinking by maximising length we would increase speed, stability and safety.
I wonder what the difference is in running costs between a 40ft and a 46ft catamaran?

If you are planning to actually cruise, living on the hook then Tiki 46 would give you everything you need. If you are marina hopping then a shorter boat might suit better.

alansmith · 27-07-2021, 10:10

Alueva, greetings from California. I have always been attracted to Wharrams. There is an Aussie married to a Mongolian lady who has a pretty decent YouTube channel called Lucky Fish. They sail a wharram. Seems the boat is around 38 foot. You will see great information about their journey. Seems like they bought the boat in South Africa and sailed it across the Atlantic and around the Caribbean.

There is another manufacturer of wharrams in south Florida. They do some pretty trick stuff. Darn if I can remember the manufacturers name.

Wharrams are great boats. Simple to maintain and can be transported by trailers since they can be dismantled. I sail a trimaran that is trailerable. That has advantages that are not to be taken lightly. I can sail in San Francisco and 4 days later be in Miami for a Bahama crossing. I don’t like the weather… pull the boat out and go 65 mph to windward.

With lithium batteries and lots of landscape on a multihull you panel up with solar you can live pretty nicely with shallow draft boats like wharram. I have zero interest in million dollar condo cats.

Alueva · 27-07-2021, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupaia

If you are planning to actually cruise, living on the hook then Tiki 46 would give you everything you need. If you are marina hopping then a shorter boat might suit better.

Valid point and something I am quite clear about at this stage: I want to avoid marinas as much as possible!! Yep, living on the hook is the way to go for us

alansmith · 27-07-2021, 10:54

Alueva, the wharram manufacturer in south Florida … which escaped me during my post… is called Boatsmith. Their website is still active. Check it out. Also you can go to Yachtworld and search Wharrams.

I also like the Catana designs. Another design I love is the Atlantic cats. But they are pricey.

Alueva · 27-07-2021, 12:32

Hi Alan, I’m with you on that one, totally not keen on a condomaran laden with too many luxuries!

I will check out the videos and websites you have suggested, thanks very much 😃

billgewater · 27-07-2021, 15:42

Hope I am wrong but I vaguely recall some comments along the line that plywood boats could not be insured by some of the major insurers. I understand that some of the Wharram cats were epoxy sheathed plywood.

Alueva · 27-07-2021, 16:58

Hi billgewater,
That’s an interesting aspect 🤔
I shall investigate this further

Anyone out there who can shed some light on the issue of boat insurance for Wharram cats?

Sand crab · 27-07-2021, 17:52

You should read Two Girls Two Catamarans by Wharram. He ecrossed the Atlantic with 2 girls on a cat in the 50s. He was the original beatnik/hippie.

chrisr · 27-07-2021, 17:55

i know the insurers here very much favour factory production built boats over one off / custom built (esp if owner built)

that's not to say they won't insure, but it will be a factor in the decision (and price if they will)

cheers,

jmh2002 · 27-07-2021, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You should read Two Girls Two Catamarans by Wharram. He ecrossed the Atlantic with 2 girls on a cat in the 50s. He was the original beatnik/hippie.

Sail Magazine article from this month for those that don't have access to the book.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihu...nbsOilumFkxKKk

smj · 27-07-2021, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by billgewater

Hope I am wrong but I vaguely recall some comments along the line that plywood boats could not be insured by some of the major insurers. I understand that some of the Wharram cats were epoxy sheathed plywood.

We had our constant camber/cold molded Marples designed catamaran insured through Boat Us/Geico for about 1.5% of boat value.

**boatman61** · 27-07-2021, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alueva

Hi billgewater,
That’s an interesting aspect 🤔
I shall investigate this further

Anyone out there who can shed some light on the issue of boat insurance for Wharram cats?

Originally Wharrams were as insurable as any other boat however as a result of many poorly built home projects this became a nono for hull insurance however I believe 3rd party insurance can be obtained else you'd not see them tied up in marinas around the world.
I would presume a professionally built Wharram with GRP hulls would be insurable if built by a recognised builder.. there was a company in the UK that built GRP Tiki's back in the 80's to early 90's, I owned one, and another competed in a Transat back in the 80's.

jmh2002 · 27-07-2021, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alueva

That’s a fair question: what’s the right size? We are a patchwork family, we need room for us two oldies and four teenagers (and plenty of surfboards). The kids will be coming and going, most likely in a three months on and off rhythm. I was also thinking by maximising length we would increase speed, stability and safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alueva

Valid point and something I am quite clear about at this stage: I want to avoid marinas as much as possible!! Yep, living on the hook is the way to go for us

I like all types of boats, and try not to be too biased, judging different types of boats by their respective merits, including Wharrams - or at least 'good modern Wharrams with centre pods, hard tops, etc' because there are also a lot of old rubbish ones out there too that must be miserable to sail on

I've posted quite a bit of info about Wharrams on this forum and you should be able to find these posts at this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...rchid=34235436

Something that is important to understand about Wharrams is that they are lower volume compared to their length, compared to many modern cruising cats, and especially compared to a modern condomaran. A Tiki 38 is tiny compared to a Lagoon 380 for example.

So you need a lot longer Wharram to compare to other cats volume wise.
But they can be an economical way to buy length, which as you mentioned increases speed, stability and safety, not to mentioning giving you a lot more space on deck which is great for tropical cruising.

Whilst a Tiki 38 is a popular boat it's also not a very big boat, and both performance and safety suffer more quickly with multihulls when they are overloaded. With a family and cruising gear you need adequate payload carrying capacity.

So it's probably not big enough based on the family situation that you mentioned above.

The next step up would be a Tiki 46 which has a lot more volume and would be much more suitable. Bigger still takes you to the Pahi 52, and the big daddy is the Pahi 63. There are also older Classic designs around with which you can sometimes get a lot of boat for not a lot of money, but they do have their quirks, especially in the interior.

I think my short list of positives for a good Wharram would be:

- can get a physically larger exterior for tropical cruising vs price (more money left for cruising)
- possible to add a lot of solar
- easily beached
- retractable propulsion and clean underwater lines
- the hulls are narrow and easily driven allowing good cruising performance
- magic carpet ride from the deep V hulls with little to no pounding
- well behaved under autopilot or even 'wharram wind vane' steering
- Tikis have simple lashed on rudders, low maintenance and not easily damaged
- overall low tech, low stress, very safe design
- and my favourite, the HUGE swim platform for great access to the water

As others have mentioned the YouTube channel Lucky Fish is a good place to start as many videos cover the Wharram ethos: https://www.youtube.com/c/SailingLuckyfish/videos

Here's the official Wharram site, with some design articles:
https://www.wharram.com/articles

Here is an old forum, but most of the discussion takes place on facebook now: Discussion Forum - Wharram Builders and Friends

Here's the two main Facebook pages, they also have mention of insurance for Wharrams:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1104053236329219
https://www.facebook.com/groups/470215363333282

If you need other general or specific info you could always PM me.

Hope that helps.

And finally here's a great shot of that huge swim platform. This one on a Pahi 52.

If you want to see what a Wharram is capable of speed wise, this is still the best video to see those easily driven hulls in action. It's a Tiki 38, but remember they are only 31'6 LWL. Throttle back for regular cruising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u50DVuFcoRQ

This video shows the type of hard top that I would put on a Wharram. It's a game changer in my opinion, perfect for the tropics.

It's a modernised custom Ariki 48 design in foam and glass built by Boatsmith in Florida. It ended up being a very expensive boat, especially for a Wharram, but some of the concepts really showcase what can be achieved more modestly too.