HH 44 by the Wynss

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by massnspace

Just skimmed thru their latest vid…..now they are pushing mental health therapist treatments….

What does that have to do with sailing or new catamarans?

Sellouts….

Yes they also sadly get a commercial channel like Ruby rose2....surf shark and their AG2 i can understand but if you need a Psychatrist because of sailing sell the boat and get RV or house...

And puddling around with WOT 5kn on 2 engines i wouldn't even accepted on a 300k cat and thats what you get on the cheapest Lagoon charter condo....doesn't matter what excuse you have. With that hulls 80% WOT diesel engine must give you 7kn on one engine, everything else is a missconstruction....regen or not....

[CaptainRivet]

What i am still keen to know how much the winglets on the minikeels do less compared to daggerboards. So similar HH44 next to each other and then start with 90 degrees and step by step go 10 degrees closer till you can't anymore.

Or in other words for the ones that have minikeels that is a quite simple retrofit add on...
laminating that to existing minikeels is easy.
Add well a better performing mass cat (eg nautitecs or older FPs) with proper cut hyrdanet sails and winglets, if they perform.like.explained in the Wynns video about them, and that cat won't be far away from them.

[leecea]

Originally Posted by ohgary

Most of the mainstream youtube sailing channels are doing this. AG1 supplements or mental health tools seems to be the most common in channel ads.

It seems to go in cycles. One minute it's all about NordVPN then it's dial-a-therapist (or whatever it's called). It's not just sailing, the one cycling channel I watched started pushing products too. Luckily these ads are easy to skip.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Yes they also sadly get a commercial channel like Ruby rose2....surf shark and their AG2 i can understand but if you need a Psychatrist because of sailing sell the boat and get RV or house...

And puddling around with WOT 5kn on 2 engines i wouldn't even accepted on a 300k cat and thats what you get on the cheapest Lagoon charter condo....doesn't matter what excuse you have. With that hulls 80% WOT diesel engine must give you 7kn on one engine, everything else is a missconstruction....regen or not....

I don't understand the mental issues. Being on my boat is all the therapy I need.

As for the speed issue the Wynns should do what I do with my electric propulsion system. Starting out in light winds I crank the electric control to just provide enough amps to turn the prop to negate any prop drag. As the wind picks up I watch amp meter go from negative to positive as the regen kicks in. I never get tired of making fuel while under way.

[gsuescum]

Originally Posted by CaptainPete222

You’re assuming that the Wynns’ got a pretty massive discount on their boat to not take a depreciation hit. Maybe, but maybe they just get paid a yearly promotion fee in lieu of a discount. If I owned HH, I’d do it that way so that I could keep a tight leash on what they are saying and to make sure their are doing the promoting I want them to do. There are most certainly many ways that the Wynns will come away with less of a hit on their net income by virtue of the boat/lifestyle being part of their business, tax savings, etc. How much less of a hit than the 189k someone who just buys an HH44 would take (instead of an older, less expensive comparably-sized cat) is at best a guess. I’m fairly confident that if you aren’t the Wynns you’ll see a decrease in your net worth of over $200,000 per year by buying an HH44. If losses like that are not an issue for you, then, as you say, no big deal.

As to your comment about taking out a loan and paying interest vs lost opportunity cost of tying up 1.6M: Interest rates are higher on boats than the 7% fairly conservative return you can expect from investing your money in the stock market and/or real estate.

Btw, actual losses over the last four years by tying up 1M in a boat vs having it in the stock market or real estate were much, much greater. People who sold their homes and put that money into a boat experienced significantly higher lost opportunity costs.

Yes… yes… very true. Now if I put everything I ever made into the market and just ate rice, I’d be very wealthy when I died. I’d also never have experienced much life.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by mbianka

I don't understand the mental issues. Being on my boat is all the therapy I need.

As for the speed issue the Wynns should do what I do with my electric propulsion system. Starting out in light winds I crank the electric control to just provide enough amps to turn the prop to negate any prop drag. As the wind picks up I watch amp meter go from negative to positive as the regen kicks in. I never get tired of making fuel while under way.

So and what do you do if you have a strong lee shore wind?
WOT over hours use diesel like crazy. 7kn under one engine 80% WOT is a security requirement for a cat and your props need to be able to achieve that....and then you get the re-gen thats possible with that prop and that will be significantly less.

Thats why its much more efficient to add seperate hydro gens with seperate propellers like watt&sea that you can also retract if not needed. They are not big and heavy and prop is optised for re-gen. The propulsion prop is optimised for propulsion and regen you get what you get with that.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

So and what do you do if you have a strong lee shore wind?
WOT over hours use diesel like crazy. 7kn under one engine 80% WOT is a security requirement for a cat and your props need to be able to achieve that....and then you get the re-gen thats possible with that prop and that will be significantly less.

Thats why its much more efficient to add seperate hydro gens with seperate propellers like watt&sea that you can also retract if not needed. They are not big and heavy and prop is optised for re-gen. The propulsion prop is optimised for propulsion and regen you get what you get with that.

After I converted to electric propulsion I never optimized the prop for regen just used the same one that was used with the old Westerbeke 27.
Having converted to electric propulsion in 2008 dealing with situations with EP was an unknown at first. I experienced having to claw off a lee shore early on. I left Mattituck on the North Shore of Long Island under a northwest wind. It became clear pretty soon I would not make it past Orient Point under sail alone. I added so I just added some electric propulsion and it soon became a non issue. Not sure if it would be different on a Cat mine is a monohull.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by mbianka

After I converted to electric propulsion I never optimized the prop for regen just used the same one that was used with the old Westerbeke 27.
Having converted to electric propulsion in 2008 dealing with situations with EP was an unknown at first. I experienced having to claw off a lee shore early on. I left Mattituck on the North Shore of Long Island under a northwest wind. It became clear pretty soon I would not make it past Orient Point under sail alone. I added so I just added some electric propulsion and it soon became a non issue. Not sure if it would be different on a Cat mine is a monohull.

Didn't mean your boat but a new 1.6Mio HH44 performance cat...props are optimised for re-gen and can obviously not do their job in propulsion properly. So mount the original of a diesel 30hp Beta on and live with the re-gen you get. The 30hp diesel are allready on the small side for a 44/48ft performance cat so you need good propulsion props to get the job done right and well get what you get on re-gen with them.
Oceanvolt has some featering props that turn into postion forward when used for propulsion and if not rotate to optimse for re-gen. The way to go on a 1.6mio cat....

[JustMurph]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Didn't mean your boat but a new 1.6Mio HH44 performance cat...props are optimised for re-gen and can obviously not do their job in propulsion properly. So mount the original of a diesel 30hp Beta on and live with the re-gen you get. The 30hp diesel are allready on the small side for a 44/48ft performance cat so you need good propulsion props to get the job done right and well get what you get on re-gen with them.
Oceanvolt has some featering props that turn into postion forward when used for propulsion and if not rotate to optimse for re-gen. The way to go on a 1.6mio cat....

You can select whatever props you like, optimised for whatever you like, when you order an HH44.

Also worth pointing out that the regen optimised props would actually be pretty good in that survival situation when you're trying to claw off a lee shore in huge winds. At the low boat speed and high power you'd be doing in such a situation, they will let the engines rev a bit higher and put a bit more power down.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

You can select whatever props you like, optimised for whatever you like, when you order an HH44.

Also worth pointing out that the regen optimised props would actually be pretty good in that survival situation when you're trying to claw off a lee shore in huge winds. At the low boat speed and high power you'd be doing in such a situation, they will let the engines rev a bit higher and put a bit more power down.

Yes true but on stuff like props you expect in this complex setup the manufacturer offers you only safe options, an WOT with 2 engines 5kn is definitely not safe.
Yes it’s hull 3 so that’s the guinepig you get having totally new model first, it’s simply trail&error what happens here and wouldn‘t be the issue if HH would announce that openly that they simply need test out the best combo.
…and with their support from HH an outcome like this is….kudos they openly show that.

[Matt Johnson]

We were just in Thailand testing the hybrid system out on the Max Cruise - same system as on the HH - and we were doing 7 knts under just electric without issue. Even more when the diesel is driving one side. HH just needed prop adjustment or their resistance curve is way off.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

We were just in Thailand testing the hybrid system out on the Max Cruise - same system as on the HH - and we were doing 7 knts under just electric without issue. Even more when the diesel is driving one side. HH just needed prop adjustment or their resistance curve is way off.

If I remember correct you have one hull the Beta 30 hybrid and in the other hull an electric motor? Correct?
Could you describe the system a bit more detailed, how many kw is the emotor, bank size etc?
Running one side the diesel the beta can supply up to 5kw which drives the emotor, how fast are you going with the 5kw then? So beta in propulsion and 5kw in the other hull without any current from battery, how fast are you and how much diesel does the beta need then?
That’s the setup that really makes sense for me as hybrid on a cat.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

If I remember correct you have one hull the Beta 30 hybrid and in the other hull an electric motor? Correct?
Could you describe the system a bit more detailed, how many kw is the emotor, bank size etc?
Running one side the diesel the beta can supply up to 5kw which drives the emotor, how fast are you going with the 5kw then? So beta in propulsion and 5kw in the other hull without any current from battery, how fast are you and how much diesel does the beta need then?
That’s the setup that really makes sense for me as hybrid on a cat.

It's been a while since we ran that test, so I don't have those exact numbers in hand, but it was around 6.4knts with the port Beta 35 hybrid propelling the boat at 1400 rpms and sending 5kW of power to starboard electric drive (10kW drive). So zero power from the battery bank. You'd have to lookup fuel curve to see what the fuel rate is at that rpm. Still had a lot of room on the engine and could also take from batt bank for starboard side.

This boat had 35kW bank, but the others are between 25-50kW depending on owners request.

We're installing a Yanmar 3ym30ae based hybrid on port, 10kw electric on starboard and a 25kW bank.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

It's been a while since we ran that test, so I don't have those exact numbers in hand, but it was around 6.4knts with the port Beta 35 hybrid propelling the boat at 1400 rpms and sending 5kW of power to starboard electric drive (10kW drive). So zero power from the battery bank. You'd have to lookup fuel curve to see what the fuel rate is at that rpm. Still had a lot of room on the engine and could also take from batt bank for starboard side.

This boat had 35kW bank, but the others are between 25-50kW depending on owners request.

We're installing a Yanmar 3ym30ae based hybrid on port, 10kw electric on starboard and a 25kW bank.

Wow 1400RPM and the other at 5kw and you ar doing 6.5kn...my Lavezzi is loaded 8.5t and does this wiith one 50hp at 1600.
As far as i know you can upgrade the beta 35 to 8kw gen means 1 beta 35 hyvrid in one hull, an 7.5-8kw emotor in the other and a combined propulsion/house of 20-25kw an you are set. 1 diesel to maintain and weight saved. Having in 2-3years the funds to upgrade to performance cat and thats the way i will go.

Why yanmar, do they have a hybrid too?
Why not the betas? Betas much cheaper parts?

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Wow 1400RPM and the other at 5kw and you ar doing 6.5kn...my Lavezzi is loaded 8.5t and does this wiith one 50hp at 1600.
As far as i know you can upgrade the beta 35 to 8kw gen means 1 beta 35 hyvrid in one hull, an 7.5-8kw emotor in the other and a combined propulsion/house of 20-25kw an you are set. 1 diesel to maintain and weight saved. Having in 2-3years the funds to upgrade to performance cat and thats the way i will go.

Why yanmar, do they have a hybrid too?
Why not the betas? Betas much cheaper parts?

The Yanmar 3ym30ae is significantly lighter than the Beta 35. It's the same electrical hybrid system, just put on a Yanmar instead of the Beta. Neither engine manufacturer is the producer of the hybrid components.

The hybrid company still feels 5kw is the max when acting as a genset. It's a cooling concern I believe.