HH 44 by the Wynss

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

What i am still keen to know how much the winglets on the minikeels do less compared to daggerboards. So similar HH44 next to each other and then start with 90 degrees and step by step go 10 degrees closer till you can't anymore.

Or in other words for the ones that have minikeels that is a quite simple retrofit add on...
laminating that to existing minikeels is easy.
Add well a better performing mass cat (eg nautitecs or older FPs) with proper cut hyrdanet sails and winglets, if they perform.like.explained in the Wynns video about them, and that cat won't be far away from them.

Wings were originally designed to add weight down low without increasing draft when static and to increase draft when healed without penalty and to create an end plate effect (Ben Lexen, Australia 2).

The winglets on the HH are not providing much end plate as they are very small relative to the chord of the keels. And of course, not providing extra ballast. I expect they are marketing spin and don’t actually provide any benefit at all. But hey, retrofit away if you think it will help.

Regarding matching the performance against the daggerboard model, ROTFL. HH isn’t stupid and doesn’t fall for their own marketing - for their performance models they design them around daggerboards.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

We were just in Thailand testing the hybrid system out on the Max Cruise - same system as on the HH - and we were doing 7 knts under just electric without issue. Even more when the diesel is driving one side. HH just needed prop adjustment or their resistance curve is way off.

How many kw were you using to get 7 knots on electric alone? I assume that was in calm conditions with no sails up.

[Matt Johnson]

6.2kW I believe. Calm seas - sailable winds, but no sails up.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

We're installing a Yanmar 3ym30ae based hybrid on port, 10kw electric on starboard and a 25kW bank.

how much does this setup cost? batteries are from which manufacturer?
does it work with saildrives or du you have shafts?

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

how much does this setup cost? batteries are from which manufacturer?
does it work with saildrives or du you have shafts?

Just for shaft drives as it needs space to install a decoupler for the shaft and the pulley to run the motor at a 2:1.

Batteries are a new 48v with comm ports from Dakota Lithium. They communicate with the hybrid - which was the part we were struggling with - and Victron equipment.

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

Just for shaft drives as it needs space to install a decoupler for the shaft and the pulley to run the motor at a 2:1.

Batteries are a new 48v with comm ports from Dakota Lithium. They communicate with the hybrid - which was the part we were struggling with - and Victron equipment.

I never really understood why Dakota and Battle Born’s are so expensive and not energy dense as compared to some of the competitors out there. These things are essentially commodities at this point and hard to justify a 3-4x price over the competition.

[ozolli]

Comparing Dakota 12V 560Ah with Victron 12V 330Ah, Dakota is twice the price per Ah.

[Cheyne]

I think that their prices were good when they were up against Victron and Mastervolt and not the cheap Chinese stuff. BB is assembling their batteries in Nevada so their labor costs are way higher than the stuff off Amazon. Now that Victron dropped their prices I can see BB and Dakota bringing their prices down. Also BB has been side tracked by their Dragonfly Inteligance stuff.

Cheyne

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

I think that their prices were good when they were up against Victron and Mastervolt and not the cheap Chinese stuff. BB is assembling their batteries in Nevada so their labor costs are way higher than the stuff off Amazon. Now that Victron dropped their prices I can see BB and Dakota bringing their prices down. Also BB has been side tracked by their Dragonfly Inteligance stuff.

Cheyne

Yea I’ll take the cheap Chinese stuff please. Most cells are made there anyways and they haven’t failed me yet (and can do so 4x before it reaches the cost of a battleborn or Dakota). That 460ah Epoch is pretty sweet too.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

Yea I’ll take the cheap Chinese stuff please. Most cells are made there anyways and they haven’t failed me yet (and can do so 4x before it reaches the cost of a battleborn or Dakota). That 460ah Epoch is pretty sweet too.

I need the internal BMS to talk to the hybrid system, so that requires batteries with comm ports that work with this setup.

I also need to be able to insure the boat, and our agent suggests we have a known battery manufacturer from the USA to not get questions asked beyond the initial form. They also suggested drop in and not to build my own.

I prefer to have 48v batteries. A lot of drop-ins won't allow you to series four together for 48v and then parallel to get the bank size needed. And I don't want four large 12v in series to get my needed 48v in case one drops out and I'm stuck.

We were originally working with a different brand, but the Dakotas saved me 200lbs for my 25kW bank.

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

Yea I’ll take the cheap Chinese stuff please. Most cells are made there anyways and they haven’t failed me yet (and can do so 4x before it reaches the cost of a battleborn or Dakota). That 460ah Epoch is pretty sweet too.

There are different levels of cheap Chinese... and batteries are not all the same.

Check the tear downs from Will Prowse - and you will start avoiding some of the Chinese offerings.. https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

Battery teardown list:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DwE0k40bpXZBQs

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by kaz911

There are different levels of cheap Chinese... and batteries are not all the same.

Check the tear downs from Will Prowse - and you will start avoiding some of the Chinese offerings.. https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

Battery teardown list:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...DwE0k40bpXZBQs

Yes that is what I follow. We just need insurance to come up with the times. There should be increased concern over non LIFEPO4 chemistries and less emphasis on manufacturer as that is likely where their risk lies.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by ozolli

Comparing Dakota 12V 560Ah with Victron 12V 330Ah, Dakota is twice the price per Ah.

Yes thats the reason Victron went from Winston to Calb and EVE and the BMS is BS, again quality down through the backdoor as everywhere in the victron program while Dakota stayed true to their quality.
4x304AH EVe and a JK BMS is half cost of victron and get the same cells with still the better BMS.
Or open a Multi and Multi 2 and put next to each other, look at the boards and the parts on the boards....cheaper boards, less parts with less good quality, less filtering...yes all cheated on with software...a multi an skilled electronic guy with basic tools can fix, the 2 not anymore....

...the victron fanboys just don't realize or if its always your install and not victron screwing up...eg my DVCC thats still not working even installed identically to their reference diagram...its my install, not victron...sure buy 3 new MPPT. Well i found my way around and next one will be Studer, same inverter/charger.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Yes thats the reason Victron went from Winston to Calb and EVE and the BMS is BS, again quality down through the backdoor as everywhere in the victron program while Dakota stayed true to their quality.
4x304AH EVe and a JK BMS is half cost of victron and get the same cells with still the better BMS.
Or open a Multi and Multi 2 and put next to each other, look at the boards and the parts on the boards....cheaper boards, less parts with less good quality, less filtering...yes all cheated on with software...a multi an skilled electronic guy with basic tools can fix, the 2 not anymore....

...the victron fanboys just don't realize or if its always your install and not victron screwing up...eg my DVCC thats still not working even installed identically to their reference diagram...its my install, not victron...sure buy 3 new MPPT. Well i found my way around and next one will be Studer, same inverter/charger.

Dakota vs Victron, well ok, then this really shows who know what, if there is ever apples compared to oranges…this is it.

[fxykty]

Bringing it back to sailing, what do you all think about the lack of visibility from the helms? It’s not that that they’re in the back corners, but that they’re so low.

About all you can do is dock on that side, but you certainly can’t see anything other than the side deck going forward. Picking up a mooring and anchoring have to be done by remote control and how would you ever pilot the boat in a tricky channel?