HH 44 by the Wynss

[Cheyne]

The Wynn's have done a Pacific crossing and have been in and out of quit a few atolls with their old Leopard.

Cheyne

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

The Wynn's have done a Pacific crossing and have been in and out of quit a few atolls with their old Leopard.

Cheyne

Yep, and they were also given a 10% discount from HH to buy their new boat. Don't get me wrong, I think it's an fantastic catamaran overall, just not for me. And I did say "most" not all.

Seth tried convincing me on their new 52 model before it was publicly announced when we were in final decision mode (no discount though lol). The forward cockpit option was intriguing I must admit.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

The choices are definitely limited out there, I just don't understand not having a raise bulkhead helm position but I'm sure others think the HH44 is just fine. Most of the people buying these have never done an open ocean passage, or navigated the entrance to an atoll, had to stand at the helm during a torrential downpour with the autopilot not working, or dodged crab pots/fishing lines for hours on end.

The new aluminum Odisea 48 catamarans did mimic the Balance helm layout nicely though. Will be interested to see how the first few hulls turn out.

Yeah odisea 48 is also what i am closly watching, wanna see the first hulls in water and see how they do/perform.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

They said it's because their fixed glass solar panels performed so well that their 30kWh battery bank (at 48V), made it unnecessary and a nuisance that isn't worth the effort.

I agree that "someday" there will be a business case, but not one single manufacturer/boat builder/ or individual has provided me any data that supports it being remotely close today...and I've asked, and of course am welcome to learning more as I too hope to have a hybrid system in the future.

Thats what i tought from beginning unnecessary having eg also integrel on board.

But if you look at other performance cats that don't have that much space for solar and 400Wx2=800W while sailing input thats a valuable add on like eg asia catamarans Stealth 14 or eg if you actually have outboards on eg a max Cruise, graingers new 36 or 40ft or the asia catamarans

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

The Wynn's have done a Pacific crossing and have been in and out of quit a few atolls with their old Leopard.

Cheyne

Well going from a 38ft leo to a 44ft performance luxery cat you can only be happy...and visble like them they can trust HH will sort out any big hickups or problems...
The HH44 is my dream cat too but i wouldn't spent that much money even if i had it.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Thats what i tought from beginning unnecessary having eg also integrel on board.

But if you look at other performance cats that don't have that much space for solar and 400Wx2=800W while sailing input thats a valuable add on like eg asia catamarans Stealth 14 or eg if you actually have outboards on eg a max Cruise, graingers new 36 or 40ft or the asia catamarans

Keep in mind that 4,000W of walk on flexible panels with no gap keeping them cool and without individual MPPT controllers to account for shading, that will need to be ripped off and replaced in 5 years or sooner DOES NOT equal 4,000W of glass panels with individual MPPT's.

That being said, 4kW is a lot, and if they wanted to, they could add another 800W of glass over their davits easy...but it wouldn't look as sexy.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Keep in mind that 4,000W of walk on flexible panels with no gap keeping them cool and without individual MPPT controllers to account for shading, that will need to be ripped off and replaced in 5 years or sooner DOES NOT equal 4,000W of glass panels with individual MPPT's.

That being said, 4kW is a lot, and if they wanted to, they could add another 800W of glass over their davits easy...but it wouldn't look as sexy.

Who has 4kw if semi-flexibles?
Well i prefer to extend the roof till the end of sugar scube and integrate 3x 700W bifacials and that delivers the same then 4kw semi flexibel, cost 10% and live triple as long. Like Delos is planning and they know why.
Also easy doable on the Odisea 48 and if done right doesn't weight much at all...its basically just a frame and the panels are the roof. Also roof shape a bit more square so you can add glass panels and in the middle a 2m walkway with semi-flexible if needed, i expect you could spare yourself that

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Keep in mind that 4,000W of walk on flexible panels with no gap keeping them cool and without individual MPPT controllers to account for shading, that will need to be ripped off and replaced in 5 years or sooner DOES NOT equal 4,000W of glass panels with individual MPPT's.

That being said, 4kW is a lot, and if they wanted to, they could add another 800W of glass over their davits easy...but it wouldn't look as sexy.

I wonder if they are CIGS flexible solar panels that have life spans more similiar to glass? If they are the regular flexible panels they'll be lucky if half aren't dead in 2 years especially in the lattitudes they are sailing. And not using individual controllers to deal with the shading from the boom and mast is just silly.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

The choices are definitely limited out there, I just don't understand not having a raise bulkhead helm position but I'm sure others think the HH44 is just fine. Most of the people buying these have never done an open ocean passage, or navigated the entrance to an atoll, had to stand at the helm during a torrential downpour with the autopilot not working, or dodged crab pots/fishing lines for hours on end.

The new aluminum Odisea 48 catamarans did mimic the Balance helm layout nicely though. Will be interested to see how the first few hulls turn out.

I think a lot of the HH buyers are ex monohull sailors, and used to standing in the back of the boat at an uncovered helm. The only issue I have with aft helms is having to look through the cabin for a view of the opposite corner.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

I think a lot of the HH buyers are ex monohull sailors, and used to standing in the back of the boat at an uncovered helm. The only issue I have with aft helms is having to look through the cabin for a view of the opposite corner.

The additional problem with the HH44 helms is that they’re so low. You may be able to see the same-side bow of your deck, but you sure as heck can’t see the water at the bow. It seams to me that close quarters manoeuvres will be difficult without being able to directly see what’s going on up forward.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Who has 4kw if semi-flexibles?
Well i prefer to extend the roof till the end of sugar scube and integrate 3x 700W bifacials and that delivers the same then 4kw semi flexibel, cost 10% and live triple as long. Like Delos is planning and they know why.
Also easy doable on the Odisea 48 and if done right doesn't weight much at all...its basically just a frame and the panels are the roof. Also roof shape a bit more square so you can add glass panels and in the middle a 2m walkway with semi-flexible if needed, i expect you could spare yourself that

Why do you need a 2m walkway? Between 2x800W of glass panels we have a 500mm walkway along the centre of our bimini and that is sufficient to access the boom. I note that Parley Revival on their Lagoon 450F have a narrow walkway as well.

We have 1000W in three panels above our davits, which are considerably lower than the bimini. Replacing them with bifacial panels is a future, low priority project. With our boat we also consider windage and don’t want our panel footprint to be too much bigger than the original design. Filling in all the space between the sugar scoops on our boat would be dangerous, your boat not so much.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The additional problem with the HH44 helms is that they’re so low. You may be able to see the same-side bow of your deck, but you sure as heck can’t see the water at the bow. It seams to me that close quarters manoeuvres will be difficult without being able to directly see what’s going on up forward.

I don't disagree. They could've integrated the step leading to the side deck into a higher standing area to see over the cabintop. Catana did a much better job.

[Cheyne]

on our Lagoon 380 the starboard side of the boat might as well not exist when I'm docking. Same goes for sailing. You can't see past the mast to the starboard side. Put out my Genoa and to the port and I couldn't tell you what is in front of me without getting up and walking to the other side of the boat.

Cheyne

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The additional problem with the HH44 helms is that they’re so low. You may be able to see the same-side bow of your deck, but you sure as heck can’t see the water at the bow. It seams to me that close quarters manoeuvres will be difficult without being able to directly see what’s going on up forward.

I think if you can afford a HH44 you can afford 2 cameras on the mast looking downwards upfront the bows into water so you can see that area on your plotter.
Everything is a compromise, i could live with HH or Balance version (and install the cameras) but eg nautitec and old catana 471 would be a nogo for me.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Why do you need a 2m walkway? Between 2x800W of glass panels we have a 500mm walkway along the centre of our bimini and that is sufficient to access the boom. I note that Parley Revival on their Lagoon 450F have a narrow walkway as well.

We have 1000W in three panels above our davits, which are considerably lower than the bimini. Replacing them with bifacial panels is a future, low priority project. With our boat we also consider windage and don’t want our panel footprint to be too much bigger than the original design. Filling in all the space between the sugar scoops on our boat would be dangerous, your boat not so much.

I also have 60 till 80cm walkway, rest is soft bimini roof and thats actually to small especially if you have to go up in bad weather because eg a reefing line is jammed. Maybe 2m is a bit to much but around 120cm would be the way to go for me.

@CarlIf: HH has semi flexible Solbian as far as i know.
The CIGS have quite a bad efficiency and their surface is quite slippery, you can walk on them but not really well so they would be great for the roof before the traveller left and right of the walkway.