HH 44 by the Wynss

[JustMurph]

It is another interesting data point for running an all electric cruising yacht (obviously, this one was not set up to be no fossil fuels). With 1kW of fixed panels, 1kW of stowable flexibles, 40kwh of batteries and the ability to regen, while day hopping, they're struggling for power. We've also seen Jimmy Cornel try it with 1.3kW of solar and fail.

The take away for me, is that the only way this can work is with a serious solar array (~5kW). Even then, it's a bad idea for a cruiser.

Starting from the base of having a diesel engine, their approach does make sense.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

It is another interesting data point for running an all electric cruising yacht (obviously, this one was not set up to be no fossil fuels). With 1kW of fixed panels, 1kW of stowable flexibles, 40kwh of batteries and the ability to regen, while day hopping, they're struggling for power. We've also seen Jimmy Cornel try it with 1.3kW of solar and fail.

The take away for me, is that the only way this can work is with a serious solar array (~5kW). Even then, it's a bad idea for a cruiser.

Starting from the base of having a diesel engine, their approach does make sense.

Fully agree on that. Thats why i highly advise to Plukky building his odyssey 48 to spec to use hybrids or as he is tight on money beta diesels.
There is also a very cool refit option to the volvo/yanmars/betas...from combi outboards.com
https://combi-outboards.com/en/products/hybrid

Its makes sense to have a small electric engine on a light cat that also works as a big alternator with regen on your diesel on a fast+light performance cat and eg have a smaller combined house and propulsion bank (to save weight and costs, that you can eg use 50% for propulsion) that you use for short distance motoring like in/out of an anchor spot or a marina, which is bad for your diesel engine anyway to run these short times. But when you run them you get a lot of AH in short time in your bank means you can also get away with less solar.

[JustMurph]

The Odisea 48 really isn't all that light any more, but it does have a huge rig to try and make up for it. It does have plenty of room for solar. Who knows with Peter, but I wouldn't be surprised if he can't afford a full fit out, so launches as a fairly stripped out boat with limited systems. In which case it could be reasonably light. At design displacement it won't be that quick, but fast enough that it should get decent regen.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

The Odisea 48 really isn't all that light any more, but it does have a huge rig to try and make up for it. It does have plenty of room for solar. Who knows with Peter, but I wouldn't be surprised if he can't afford a full fit out, so launches as a fairly stripped out boat with limited systems. In which case it could be reasonably light. At design displacement it won't be that quick, but fast enough that it should get decent regen.

Well the target weight fully outfitted was pretty low, maybe on the higher side for alu but significantly lighter then an outremer 45/48 in reality. Don't remember the exact number but that sticked to my head.
I am quite sure you are right he will launch with a stripped and limited equipment as he is also missing sponsors and in the plumbing market won't make it easy for him plus alu is not mainstream. All i talk to from boot in Düsseldorf said the expensive above 2-3 Mio. Still sells well but below all struggling.
But also full electric would raise price by minimum 80k compared to 2x50hp diesel if not more.
Is it really a huge rig like catanas that compensate with a big rig as that just raises price and also raise maintenance cost a lot...price traget was 800k

[donradcliffe]

If you want to throw money at a hybrid, I really like the Beta/motor setup on the HH44. Base on the recent regen experience however, it looks like wasted money. An electric-only propulsion boat will take you back 100 years in time.

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

If you want to throw money at a hybrid, I really like the Beta/motor setup on the HH44. Base on the recent regen experience however, it looks like wasted money. An electric-only propulsion boat will take you back 100 years in time.

And add 30 years to your looks after being stranded somewhere in an emergency when you realise you only have maybe 2-3 hours at full power.

Then you might have a Panda 48V generator - but being Panda that wont turn on..

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Well the target weight fully outfitted was pretty low, maybe on the higher side for alu but significantly lighter then an outremer 45/48 in reality. Don't remember the exact number but that sticked to my head.

Theorically, the Odisea 48 light displacement should be 7.6T and the Outremer 45 is 8.7T.

[JustMurph]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

If you want to throw money at a hybrid, I really like the Beta/motor setup on the HH44. Base on the recent regen experience however, it looks like wasted money. An electric-only propulsion boat will take you back 100 years in time.

I thought it was silly at first, but I think there's method to the madness in the SLV rapido's (let's make a name up here) divorced hybrid (a conventional diesel + a completely separate oceanvolt servoprop unit). Compared to a parallel hybrid you are going to get better regen and the added redundancy of a totally separate drive unit. There are a bunch of smaller pros and cons to this approach.

This is just an asymmetric hybrid in a cat, condensed into one hull.

[JustMurph]

Originally Posted by ozolli

Theorically, the Odisea 48 light displacement should be 7.6T and the Outremer 45 is 8.7T.

Pretty sure the last number I saw was closer to 9t. It's a lot heavier than a Mumby 48 (7.5t).

[ozolli]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

Pretty sure the last number I saw was closer to 9t. It's a lot heavier than a Mumby 48 (7.5t).

I don't remember where I found this, but in one of his YT videos he says 7700 kg. Here at 9:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q61vN2zWkkU

[JustMurph]

My number might be off a bit....last I saw it's just under 2t heavier than a Mumby at light ship. But, let's see what they achieve when they build one.

Their design has changed a lot from the first pass, which let's say "borrowed", very heavily from the Mumby. The second version has altered the hull shapes a little, changed the exterior look away from "updated Mumby" and added a lot of structure. The big rig and added structure is a bit of a chicken and the egg situation, right. Add all of that righting moment and you need a stronger structure to take the load. The structure is heavy, so you need a bigger rig to drive the boat. The Mumby rig isn't small either...

There are some things in the naval architecture that concern me, just looking at the relative sizes of the main and jib, and location of the mast relative to the boards. I'm not a NA, but it doesn't look right to me.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

Pretty sure the last number I saw was closer to 9t. It's a lot heavier than a Mumby 48 (7.5t).

well thats a bummer then, thats really heavy for an alu cat.
the galley down of mumbays is an absolute noGo for me and odessay having it up plus some other changes i don't like about a mumbay.

and i assume they end up in the same price range then an outremer 45/48...

[JustMurph]

It's definitely not cheap either!

Re the galley, I will just say, galley up was also a must for me too. That's a compromise I made when I bought the Mumby......and that was the very last time I ever thought about it. It's a damn good galley. It's huge, has everything you need, but the best bit is that it's still really well connected to the rest of the boat.

Unlike most cats with a galley down, where you're down in a dark tunnel, the entire galley is open to the saloon and the helm. The person in the galley still has eye contact with those sitting around the table or helm.

I'd still take a galley up if I could, but it's not a must have, if the galley down is executed right.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

It's definitely not cheap either!

Re the galley, I will just say, galley up was also a must for me too. That's a compromise I made when I bought the Mumby......and that was the very last time I ever thought about it. It's a damn good galley. It's huge, has everything you need, but the best bit is that it's still really well connected to the rest of the boat.

Unlike most cats with a galley down, where you're down in a dark tunnel, the entire galley is open to the saloon and the helm. The person in the galley still has eye contact with those sitting around the table or helm.

I'd still take a galley up if I could, but it's not a must have, if the galley down is executed right.

Been in a seawind which has a quite similar open low down galley then mumbay and i hated it, especially in rougher sea state.yes they have normally more counterspace then galley up on similar size cat.
It also comprimeses the whole space in that hull. For me everything except sleeping and head must be on one level on a cat for passages.
My dream setup would be One hull owner but head with seperate shower in the middle area and in the bow a walk in wardrobe and wetlocker incl. washschine, so owner is not cluttered with stuff. Forward facing U-shape Galley up with a coffee bar like in the old Leopard 38, enough for eating with smal crew. Forward facing nav/office desk and daybed lounge. Other hull guest cabin rear.with small ensuite toilet+shower, where galley down would be a workshop in middle area that also has most of technic stuff, heavy tools stored in the middle.and a smaller bow household room with drawer style freezer/fridge/foodstorage. Cockpit with table under fixed roof

[adamgoldberg]

Originally Posted by ozolli

I don't remember where I found this, but in one of his YT videos he says 7700 kg. Here at 9:37

The website currently says 7970kgs light displacement.